Is it your belief that there are "pro-vaccine" people here that would not change their stance on vaccines no matter the evidence?

The problem we have is the President of the USA, Dr Fauci all said if you get the vaccine you can not get covid or spread it. The problem lies there was no testing on this and as we learned moving on that those statements were false. Some would argue the variants changed .

Am I glad I got my vaccines and booster yes. But to all those that lost their jobs I would be pissed. The government lied to them

Actually and surprisingly no. I definitely think this whole issue is super politicized of course, but I think people can be objective in the face of evidence on this because it's not the sort of issue that gives too much room for subjectivity.

I'm open to being wrong though.

Ok.

So basically you are completely ignorant (not in a bad way necessarily) to the science of this vaccine and i will explain.


No, despite some early hopes in its prelaunch, speculative days that it could stop most/all spread by those vaccinated by preventing them getting it, the data quickly came in showing that vaccinated people would continue to get and spread it, just at greatly diminished rates to those unvaccinated.

but MORE importantly the vaccine was very efficacious, in its most important aspect of reducing severe disease death, the major thing that would reduce hospitalization and allow for the vulnerable and aged to be able to get beds and care, without so much competition.

So while the vaccines were not a homerun, they were a solid triple.

Most people had learned this by early 2021 so i am surprised at how uninformed you still are, as i do not think you exist in a right wing bubble (as they too share this ignorance with you), but you really need to question the sources of information you seek out.

This statement isn't 100% accurate, but calling it a "lie" is absurd.

Was it the truth?

So than you are calling the President and Dr Fauci completely ignorant for telling us that?

For the most part, yes. Getting the vaccine greatly reduces your risk of getting and/or spreading COVID, although it's not perfect.

Socrates' last words: "I just drank WHAT???"

I'd be amazed to the uttermost if even a shill like Dr. Fauci claimed that the vaccine would absolutely prevent one from getting Covid.

Everyone by definition was completely ignorant pre any data on speculative vaccine efficacy.


I guess we need a tutorial on the process here but they do is SPECULATE based on best comparable data and then ADJUST for results as they come in.

that is the big error we saw in the Trump era as the Derps seemed to think every statement that changed after means the person was caught in a lie and that is NOT how science works.

The big error was Fauci presenting The Science as absolute truth. As you correctly point out, that's not how science works. He even took it a step further to declare "I am the science..". As a scientist he certainly knows all of this. This is just one of the lies he told.

I could be wrong, but I suspect the vaccines might actually be underrated right now among most of the public, except the progressive elites and their followers that swear by it as mainly a purity pledge.

However, when the MO of the elites is gaslighting, deflection and secrecy; it allows the other side (including some bad actors) to control what people actually think (as demonstrated by their actions).

It's super interesting that 33% of Democrats believe they know someone who died from vaccines but only 26% of Republicans.

I'm also really surprised by the amount of people who think they've had covid-- I thought it was a lot higher.

What are the odds Rasmussen keeps calling the same 10 Ds? Somebody call Tulsi and the gang we need to run some numbers

That's all false

Even the BigPharma toadies at the CDC have admitted that at least the boosters don't reduce the odds of getting COVID. But the vaccinated seem to have better outcomes overall than the non-vaxxed.

Do those studies take into account overall health/lifestyle? I imagine the vaxxed have a baseline health that is better than the unvaxxed. Pretty sure Republicans weigh more than Democrats...

*Confirmed rural Republicans have the highest mortality rate and we know they're some of the least vaxxed, so I wouldn't trust any numbers that say vaxxed do better until we see what methodology they're using.

How do you feel about dirty hippies riding around on donkeys slapping people with their all-in-1 supervax*?

*side effects may last thousands of years

That poll is over a year old. A LOT of people who had weren't sure if they had had Covid before absolutely know they got Covid in the last year. Remember, before Delta/Omicron, Covid ariants did not present common cold symptoms as much and tests were not readily available, so mild Covid was probably actually harder to notice/confirm.

Also, it is probably necessary to make a distinction between Progressives and the rest of the Democrat voting populace. Progressives generally are rushing to get as many jabs as possible, making appointments with their doctor to get Pavloxid at the first sign of the sniffles, and wearing masks walking around outside. Again, this probably has as much to do as proving their ideological convictions than actually personal safety concerns.

Most of the rest of the Democrat voting populace is probably stuck on 2 or 3 jabs and waiting how things suss out. They are probably willing to get more jabs if new developments justify it, but aren't blindingly following "The Science" anymore like Progressives.

Between Elon taking over Twitter and opening real discussion and presentation of data there, and the Republicans taking control of the House; I think there is optimism we will actually get some honest discussion and presentation of data on efficacy/safety of the mRNA vaccines.

They are fighting tooth and nail not to, but there is a lot of lawsuits in the pipeline that may force Pfizer and Moderna to release their own secret, internal safety/efficacy data too, and I think people are eagerly awaiting this.

Most of the criticism of the data supporting Covid efficacy is that:

a) Old data is being used, when the vaccines were unarguably much more effective.

b) The data is not being stratified by age.

--They might be arguing the long term effects might make it not worth it, but no-one serious is arguing that the mRNA shots weren't initially very successful against OG Covid among the most vulnerable populations. And by refusing to get vaccinated in 2020, vulnerable, elderly Republicans were definitely increasing their odds of an early demise.

The legitimate criticism (IMO at least) is we need to move past this 2 year old data and focus on the present landscape, especially in non-vulnerable groups.

Huh?

This article that was posted here about a week ago, has data through October 2022 and breaks down deaths by age groups and vaccination status.

What is "super interesting" about that? If more dems are vaccinated, then I would expect they would be more likely to know someone that died from vaccines.

Democrats are more supportive of the vaccines.