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Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration)

06-11-2020 , 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
when the Soviet archives were opened up they did not align with the propaganda from the CIA and Reagan gov so they needed a reason why.
Victor and Luckbox, sittin in a tree..
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
06-11-2020 , 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiddyBang
Yes. Libertarians have autism for sure. This is the Gulag thread though, think maybe you're lost comrade!
My bad, TittyB, thought you were one of the "government should stick to building roads and keep their ****ing nose out of everything else" brigade.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
06-22-2020 , 07:51 AM
https://theintercept.com/2020/06/19/...cktails-trump/

literal political prisoners. btw, did they get life sentences to the gulags like they do here?
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
06-22-2020 , 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
https://theintercept.com/2020/06/19/...cktails-trump/

literal political prisoners. btw, did they get life sentences to the gulags like they do here?
Not always, but they did usually jail, expel or execute their families.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
06-22-2020 , 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
https://theintercept.com/2020/06/19/...cktails-trump/

literal political prisoners. btw, did they get life sentences to the gulags like they do here?
A bullet or being worked, starved and frozen to death isn't technically a life sentence, no.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
06-22-2020 , 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor
https://theintercept.com/2020/06/19/...cktails-trump/

literal political prisoners. btw, did they get life sentences to the gulags like they do here?
This article makes my blood boil, but you've really picked the wrong hill to die on with this gulag comparison.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-17-2021 , 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
False.
Socialist Poker: Rake is paid by people not invited to play in the game.

Actually I'm not sure how to take that joke.

In socialism the government would own the game and perhaps provide it free of rake because taxpayers would provide the cost to run the room. But I'm not sure how that translates into the taxpayers not being invited to play.

In the US system the government would buy the store front and furniture and set up a private individual with the poker room using taxpayer money, then the private individual would rake the customers and likely pay house shills to cheat for him. Then he'd hire immigrant workers and pay them less than minimum wage. When the employees tried to unionize he'd call them socialists.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-18-2021 , 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds
Socialist Poker: Rake is paid by people not invited to play in the game.

Actually I'm not sure how to take that joke.

In socialism the government would own the game and perhaps provide it free of rake because taxpayers would provide the cost to run the room. But I'm not sure how that translates into the taxpayers not being invited to play.

In the US system the government would buy the store front and furniture and set up a private individual with the poker room using taxpayer money, then the private individual would rake the customers and likely pay house shills to cheat for him. Then he'd hire immigrant workers and pay them less than minimum wage. When the employees tried to unionize he'd call them socialists.
The point of my joke was that non-participants in the game would be paying the rake, but couldn't win any money because they're not playing in the game.

As an aside: Does everyone in the game get a participation trophy?
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-18-2021 , 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
The point of my joke was that non-participants in the game would be paying the rake, but couldn't win any money because they're not playing in the game.

As an aside: Does everyone in the game get a participation trophy?
Right.

But they're not playing in the game because they chose not to. They're probably enjoying some other activity paid for by their taxes.

The participation trophy goes to Wall St. They're the ones playing poker with our money. But....if that's what you consider socialism I can get on board.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-18-2021 , 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wet work
Probably depends if boomers are in charge
Boomers (tail end here) all got their participation trophies at birth.
Now that we're old and even dumber than when we were kids due to a steady diet of cable TV, we want to burn the store down on our way out.

But I suspect the millennials are going to be just as bad. They grew up under the oligarchy. They honestly have no idea that their government will work for them if they make it. We boomers know we dropped the ball (some of us). They don't know there is a ball.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-18-2021 , 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds

But they're not playing in the game because they chose not to.
Right.

Quote:
They're probably enjoying some other activity paid for by their taxes.
Citation needed.

Quote:
The participation trophy goes to Wall St. They're the ones playing poker with our money. But....if that's what you consider socialism I can get on board.
Crony Capitalism is indeed evil.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-18-2021 , 12:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
Right.

Citation needed.
I'm no economist but there must be some correlation between all those extra Ts and the greatest economy ever?
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-18-2021 , 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
Citation needed.
Socialists were good at gymnastics.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-20-2021 , 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
Right.

Citation needed.

Crony Capitalism is indeed evil.
what's the difference between crony capitalism and some other form of capitalism?

isn't the crony stuff built in?
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-20-2021 , 07:09 PM
Boom!
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-20-2021 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
what's the difference between crony capitalism and some other form of capitalism?

isn't the crony stuff built in?
No
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-20-2021 , 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcm1998
No
I'd love to see an example of a capitalist system where human nature is overridden by the divine forces of the God given free market.

But alas, I have to settle for a two letter answer.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-20-2021 , 09:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds
I'd love to see an example of a capitalist system where human nature is overridden by the divine forces of the God given free market.

But alas, I have to settle for a two letter answer.
To be fair, it's not too different to when I try to explain to people why socialism doesn't work. Spoiler: the explanation is also "human nature".
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-20-2021 , 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
To be fair, it's not too different to when I try to explain to people why socialism doesn't work. Spoiler: the explanation is also "human nature".
Well, socialism is never an option in the US. We'd do well with a modern government that can meet the basic needs of the populace.

Not many Americans want the state to control the means of production. Lefties here are center to center right in most modern countries.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-20-2021 , 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RFlushDiamonds
Well, socialism is never an option in the US. We'd do well with a modern government that can meet the basic needs of the populace.

Not many Americans want the state to control the means of production. Lefties here are center to center right in most modern countries.
Yes, I meant real socialism, not what crazy right wingers call "socialism" because they don't understand that they are fascists.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-20-2021 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
crazy right wingers
Speaking of which, RIP OP.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-21-2021 , 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2_e4
To be fair, it's not too different to when I try to explain to people why socialism doesn't work. Spoiler: the explanation is also "human nature".
This may also apply to democracy
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-21-2021 , 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
This may also apply to democracy
Won't find much argument from me there, as you know.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-21-2021 , 06:04 AM
I know

but it does make the 'wont work because of human nature' a rather awkward argument. Maybe nothing works or maybe the notion of 'it working' is ill-conceived. Or maybe the bumble bee can fly.
Communism and capitalism (formerly Re: Gulags vs Mass Incarceration) Quote
02-21-2021 , 06:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
I know

but it does make the 'wont work because of human nature' a rather awkward argument. Maybe nothing works or maybe the notion of 'it working' is ill-conceived. Or maybe the bumble bee can fly.
Not sure what you're talking about with the bumble bees, but when you make that argument you have to specify which specific part doesn't work and why. For example, I might say "communism doesn't work on the scale of nation states because people are innately greedy and selfish and corrupt and the whole concept of communism relies fundamentally relies on people being benevolent and acting in the best interests of the group". There is nothing wrong with making such an argument, even though I am aware some will disagree with its premises and/or conclusion.
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