thanks for confirming you are a ****** thinking i was literally believing people were advocating chinese should all starve to death...

ffs man how can you be this stupid? I'm genuinely asking.

Remember, this most likely came out of a lab and the entire food hygiene discussion is a red herring.

Lol.

No the evidence strongly suggests it did not come out of a lab Kelhusbox.

We've gotten to where any idiot who knows nothing about what he is talking about can spew on as if he did and people defend his right to be an irresponsible moron. There is no evidence this was manmade and lots of evidence that it is not, but you are too uncurious to inform yourself by reading serious sources and too uneducated to understand them were you to do so, so instead you should just keep your charlatan mouth closed. Political correctness has gone too far and we let these rightwing fools say whatever bullshit crosses their infantile minds, and we get all on the case of those who stand up to their subnormal drivel.

I'm from the deep south, and it suffices to go to Boston or New York to experience this.

You're like the Brexiteers that haven't realized the empire died a long time ago. The USA is clearly #2 now. There's no reason to suspect that those meat processing plants where everyone is getting coronavirus have higher safety and cleanliness standards than your typical Chinese market. Actually, there's a lot of reason to suspect they don't.

Here's what you said:
I then asked you to cite verbatim where this was said.
You're unable to do this.
So once again, that's quite a leap...

Speaking of morons, you do realize that the virus doesn't have to be manmade to come out of a lab? Right.

I'm neither a Brexiteer or British...

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...&postcount=551


...and you're an apologist for the CCP

No, I think the US intelligence information is that it may have escaped, due to poor precautions, from a lab where it was being studied. No idea how definite that information is. Perhaps not very.

One or two labs, notably in Canada and at Porton Down, have studied genetically reconstructed 1918 H1N1 flu. The security in those labs being so total that, thank God, that thing never got on the loose again. Though there are indications that a vaccine against the 2009 H1N1 'swine flu' strain also works, at least in experimental animals, against the 1918 horror.

#POTY

This simple post captures the entire essence of joesixpack.

Oh look, another moron. Right on cue.

Exactly.

It's pretty much accepted now that it didn't come from that wet market.

What evidence? I haven't seen a single piece of evidence.

Most of what you consider evidence is in reality a bunch of opinions and misinformation.

Pretty sad that under Trump we are competing with China over who can treat the other country's journalists worse.

I read it as a recognition that Chinese media outlets are arms of CCP propaganda machine and their reporters are not reporters, not even Fox News reporters, as we understand reporters to be.

I do appreciate the irony of OP using a article written by a Qatari state controlled news outlet to make a moral equivalent between how the US treats CCP state controlled "journalists" versus how the CCP treats actual independent journalists.

Yes, it is my view that Donald Trump doesn't favor a free press and would prefer the CCP method of just having state-run media to the free press we actually have here in the US. Your claims about moral equivalence above is false and probably due to you trolling rather than a good faith attempt at understanding what I'm saying.

I haven't read this thread but I am curious.

Is there anyone that thinks that within the Bio-Weapon Departments in all the major militaries they would not be experimenting with any and all Corona Virus and other virus they could find?

I mean, it would pretty much be negligent not to, even if from only a defensive stand point.

What if the US did not study them and seek vaccines and some other country like CHina or Russia or N.Korea managed to weaponize one.

We live in times of unconventional wars where if a virus could be weaponized to have the spread pattern of Covid and the delayed lethality of Ebola and snuck into a country's population, you could cripple an entire population and its military with that bug.

So would i be surprised if China was examining Covid in that lab? NO. In fact I would be surprised if they were not.

I'm going to bump my own pot as I hope to hear others views on this??

Well, I think there's two problems.

The first is that I don't know how to answer the actual question you asked, as to the likelihood of countries experimenting with biological weapons. I think you may underestimate somewhat the deterrent effect of international law and norms against it. I wouldn't say the probability was zero, but I don't think the argument you are making should seem that persuasive either. It's pretty thin.

Secondly, of course the reason for pondering the first question is to try to figure out how likely it is that covid-19 is a consequence (presumably accidental) of such experimentation. But that's also really difficult to answer, and answering the first question doesn't settle this question anyway.

So, I'm sure it's a question I would be interested in if I were an intelligence analyst, but it's hard to say anything about it here beyond very idle speculation. Beyond that, this sort of speculation, as far as it drives conspiracy theories and other political consequences in public opinion, seems to me to have more downside than upside.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Let me be clear as I agree with what you say but believe there is a line of distinction I was not clear in making.


- Gov'ts do have Bioweapons departments within their Militaries. That does not mean they are tasked with creating bio weapons in defiance of international law (that may or may not happen). They would be tasked with ensuring the country could defend itself against rogue nations or terrorists groups who DO seek these types of non conventional weapons.


so my point was to say 'it would be negligent IMO if the US, and others were not trying to find and catalogue all the variants of certain viruses (corona virus, etc) that they know exist and hold the potential to JUMP from animal to human with devastating effect.

Imagine the US (and other nations) saying 'we will not seek out, catalogue and study and look for vaccines' to these potentially deadly agents and then it being weaponized by a rogue actor and the US (other nations) being at square one in trying to counter it?

I think that would be irresponsible of nations. I think they should and MUST have such ongoing research such as what was going on in Wuhan and recognize that comes with risks.

Risks being accidental release, or covert actions within their own militaries to seek to weaponize it.

But my goal is not to focus on the conspiracy theory part, but instead to ask if people would be surprised to learn that the country they live in has a very active program or collecting, analyzing, studying, these various deadly viruses whether at home or abroad?


I ask this as the Trump admin has been using this to say 'SEE Wuhan was studying these viruses... thus BAD Wuhan... We should blame and fear them and what they do.'

That may be true but it could also just be that when you study such things (and the US was there studying things too), that sometimes accidents happen.

cuepee, i don't think you fully understand the situation and are conflating two separate things

every developed nation has stockpiles of deadly diseases, bacteria, gas, etc in their laboratories - there is nothing secret about that

we even dug up old cadavers from historical plagues in hopes to find the disease still living there dormantly

every country that can afford it collects and studies all diseases - this is why the coronavirus study lab is labeled on google maps because it's a standard, totally normal thing to do that was built with international assistance

whether or not it escaped that lab is another thing entirely, but you're talking about developing bio weapons, which if done, would be at a secret location likely hidden underground and not at a lab with a big sign and so many foreigners working there that they advertised online in English looking for qualified researchers

none of this refutes your bioweapon thesis, i'm sure that stuff still goes on, i'm just saying it's perfectly normal for countries to be studying all sorts of diseases at all times

We are saying the same thing but you seem to not see that in my posts.

I am saying IT IS NORMAL to have this type of Wuhan facility.

The US, (Pompeo and Trump) seem to be saying 'gotcha China. We have exposed Wuhan was working with Corona virus THUS BAD' and that is being fed to the media via Fox news and others.

I am asking American's and others if they are surprised or would be surprised that such facilities,such as Wuhan, that have the potential to have such an accident exist? As it seems they (average citizens) do not know that and think somehow CHina have been caught here.

my bad, sorry for the tone, seeing lots of conspiracy theories out there lately and just assumed this was part of that