British Politics - Page 477 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Folk shouldn't be protesting outside someone's house in this way.

While we're on the subject, what would folks opinion be of a MP using their parliamentary privelege to arrange a protest blocking access to parliament?

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02-24-2024 , 06:24 AM

#11902

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Husker

Change rules so that no one is legally allowed to block access to parliament, it's a core vital function of society which shouldn't be legally disruptable.

As long as the rules permit it (no idea if that's the case, but i assume it is as you mentioned that) the MP is allowed to, even if i find it horrible to do so. But change those rules

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02-24-2024 , 06:26 AM

#11903

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

The meaning is disputed. I'm never a fan of the geniuses who know. Ultimately courts decide these things

Sure but why should it be a free for all to use public buildings??? it's not like you have a human right to do what you want with public property, i don't get it.

Free speech isn't free platforming or free access to unique iconic public buildings.

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02-24-2024 , 06:56 AM

#11904

chezlaw

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,863

Unless it's dangerous or doing some damage or something then I can't see an issue

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02-24-2024 , 07:01 AM

#11905

Elrazor

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Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 14,054

Plenty of occasions where political messages have been displayed on public buildings. In fact, the FA were roundly criticised for not lighting Wembley up in Jewish colours as they have done for previous victims of terrorism.

As far as who gets to decide what is racist, the usual benchmark is the recipients get to decide, which in this case is Jewish people.

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02-24-2024 , 07:27 AM

#11906

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Unless it's dangerous or doing some damage or something then I can't see an issue

It's aesthetically really unpleasant, isn't the look of historical buildings possibly the most important reason to preserve them??

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02-24-2024 , 07:28 AM

#11907

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

Plenty of occasions where political messages have been displayed on public buildings. In fact, the FA were roundly criticised for not lighting Wembley up in Jewish colours as they have done for previous victims of terrorism.

As far as who gets to decide what is racist, the usual benchmark is the recipients get to decide, which in this case is Jewish people.

Ok but that happened because the actual owners of the building (and/or the democratically tasked managers of the building) decided that right? not someone else?

I don't care if it's racist or not i am asking how it is possible to simply allow anyone to cover in images/writing other buildings they don't own

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02-24-2024 , 08:18 AM

#11908

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

It's aesthetically really unpleasant, isn't the look of historical buildings possibly the most important reason to preserve them??

I agree it's hideous, as are the palaces of Westminster, but I wouldn't go as far as to say they shouldn't be preserved because we are pretty much stuck with them for touristy reasons.

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02-24-2024 , 08:21 AM

#11909

jalfrezi

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Luciom

I don't care if it's racist or not

Oh you do surprise me.

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02-24-2024 , 08:26 AM

#11910

Luciom

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Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Oh you do surprise me.

? If it's free speech, it can be racist free speech and it shouldn't matter (if something akin to the 1a is in place).

But ye true the UK probably doesn't have any right to speech given hate speech laws exist

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02-24-2024 , 08:30 AM

#11911

Luciom

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So in the UK it's perfectly legal to project any imagery of any color to any building for as long as you like? or that works only for public buildings?

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02-24-2024 , 08:36 AM

#11912

jalfrezi

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02-24-2024 , 08:41 AM

#11913

jalfrezi

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Originally Posted by Luciom

We don't have the 1A because we don't have a written constitution to amend, more a collection of documents and conventions developed over many hundreds of years.

Of course there's a right to free speech, as long as it doesn't breach hate speech laws. You can stand on your soapbox at Speaker's Corner or anywhere else and rant and rave about immigration if you want, but if you start saying that brown skinned people are intrinsically criminal you can be arrested because your right to spout hateful racism does not trump the right of brown skinned people to go about their everyday life without being harassed and intimidated by you.

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02-24-2024 , 08:44 AM

#11914

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Ok so except for hate speech however defined, you can project anything on any public building? because i don't understand how that can be a norm, not for free speech reasons but for aesthetic reasons... i don't think people would be allowed to project images of pork meat on a mosquee, or am i wrong?

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02-24-2024 , 08:46 AM

#11915

jalfrezi

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I think you're right that projecting pork meat onto a mosque or synagogue would be a very clear act of racial harassment and against the law, as would forcing pork through the letterboxes of people who you know are Muslim or Jewish.

So I'd advise you against doing any of those things.

Last edited by jalfrezi; 02-24-2024 at 08:54 AM.

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02-24-2024 , 08:55 AM

#11916

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

I think you're right that projecting pork meat onto a mosque or synagogue would be a very clear act of racial harassment and against the law, as would forcing pork through the letterboxes of Muslim or Jewish people.

So I'd advise you against doing any of those things.

Ok so you can't project pork because deriding a religion is racial harassment (wtf has race to do with religious rules?), can you project the videos of hamas attacks on 10 7 on a mosquee?

Why the hell are people allowed to project things on buildings they don't own? that's the part i don't understand, it's a very basic property right violation

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02-24-2024 , 08:56 AM

#11917

jalfrezi

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If it's a public building then it's owned by the public and the act of sending light rays to it doesn't materially affect the building, so you're not damaging it.

I'd still advise against setting up your projector to beam videos of 7/10 onto a mosque. That will probably fall foul of race hate laws in the same way that assuming that all Jewish people are pro-Israel is antisemitic.

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02-24-2024 , 09:04 AM

#11918

Luciom

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

If it's a public building then it's owned by the public and the act of sending light rays to it doesn't materially affect the building, so you're not damaging it.

.

Ye which is why i was assuming they were authorized by the public entity in charge of that building.

The idea that changing the appearance of something however temporarily doesn't affect materially something is... really weird. The look of something is one of it's material characteristics.

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02-24-2024 , 10:30 AM

#11919

chezlaw

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I'm sure therer are other restrictions apart from hate speach. For example, I can't imagine coca cola would be allowed to display adverts on public buldings. Not sure what the relevant law would be but if there isn't one I've no doubt there soon would be.

Also anything long lasting would be an issue. During a demo seems fine unless it violates some other law such as hate, pornography etc

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02-24-2024 , 10:34 AM

#11920

washoe

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coca cola is available at every college/university vending machines.
they put their ads on that machine, IN HUGE LETTERS.

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02-24-2024 , 10:38 AM

#11921

jalfrezi

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It's their machine though. I doubt that many people want to see their logo splayed across the front of public buildings.

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02-24-2024 , 11:00 AM

#11922

diebitter

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This stuff about Islamists controlling Sadiq Khan is nonsense.

The things controlling Sadiq Khan are clearly idiocy, hubris and the addiction to trying to squeeze every last penny out of motorists in London. Let's hope he doesn't prove to be an inspiration to the assorted small-brained individuals that have some sort of power in other cities in the UK.