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10-02-2023 , 04:11 PM

#10776

Doctor Zeus

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 13,118

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalfrezi

Yup, I remember living in short life housing as a young man - no central heating, no open fire (a portable gas cylinder instead), pipes that regularly froze during winter (and then burst) so no running water then, and thick ice on the inside of bedroom windows. Not pleasant but at least I had a toilet indoors, or in the local library or various pubs where I spent weekends during cold spells.

Nowadays I'm more of a 21C indoors man.

Jal turning his house in to the beach

Quote

10-02-2023 , 04:19 PM

#10777

wazz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 15,293

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakk

Would you mind expanding on this a bit? I tried googling fair rents but it wasn’t helpful

You want to be googling 'rent control'. I believe they have it in a fair few american cities. It's somewhat of a socialist policy that existed in this country in some guise I believe until Thatcher got rid of it but I could be wrong about that

Quote

10-02-2023 , 04:48 PM

#10778

Trakk

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 284

Ah I see thanks. And yes it seems (based on Wikipedia) that the Housing Act 1980 removed rent control in England and Wales, as well as introducing right to buy. For what it’s worth the Scottish government recently introduced a max 3% increase on rent, with mixed consequences.

Quote

10-02-2023 , 05:47 PM

#10779

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,892

Not certain as this was neary 40 years ago but I think it was this

Quote:

The Rent Act 1965 introduced three major innovations. Firstly, except for furnished lettings, it was the first time that a new long-term flexible approach had been brought to the old problem of rent control. It substituted the rent-fixing formula of earlier legislation with independent rent regulation by Rent Officers. This introduced the normal valuation principles into the assessment of a fair rent (section 68 in the Rent Act 1965 and Section 70 in the consolidated Rent Act 1977) by requiring that regard should specifically be had to the age, character, locality and state of repair of the dwelling. Personal circumstances were to be disregarded as were improvements carried out voluntarily by, and any disrepair or defects attributable to, the tenant or a predecessor in title. A most fundamental concept was introduced whereby it had to be assumed that the number of persons seeking to become tenants of similar dwelling houses in the locality on the terms (other than those relating to rent) of the regulated tenancy was not substantially greater than the number of such dwelling-houses in the locality that were available for letting on such terms. This requirement to assume a roughly balanced market was described by commentators as the "scarcity factor", (words that did not appear in the Act). There was an automatic rent review (but only if applied for) at three-yearly intervals (reduced to two-yearly intervals in the 1980 Housing Act).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...land_and_Wales
Not only was the rent fixed for us but the landlord had to continue it for a number of years with future tenents.

I think importantly this wasn't an attempt to manage rents in terms of affordability etc. it's was about the state of the property and so helped prevent profiteering from substandard even dangerous accomodation - a huge problem these days. It's such a simple remedy with ermm... no downsides at all.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 01:19 AM

#10780

Elrazor

losing momentum

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 14,258

Quote:

Originally Posted by washoe

You have to factor in many factors
like age etc.etc....

Yes, I did know this, because I already said it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elrazor

I couldn't find any data saying lower than 18 degrees was unhealthy. Plus, people have historically lived in far colder houses.

Not saying this is desirable. And yes, young, old or ill, you might need more but the data is not clear here either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by washoe

did you know your body temperature changes in a few years? and this might change things for you? no, u didn't...

I can't say whether I know this or not as the point is unclear - Can you clarify what you mean? for example, when does body temperature change, by how much and why?

Quote

10-03-2023 , 05:02 AM

#10781

Husker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakk

They were warned in advance that the rent controls wouldn't work and lo and behold the outcome is that rents have risen higher up here than in the rest of the UK since it was introduced. Almost everything they do fails.

Just for balance, the Right to Buy was a shambles of a policy as well and was basically a cash grab by central government at the expense of local government.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 08:21 AM

#10782

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,892

Rent controls are a very difficult policy when the underlying problem is supply and demand. There are no good answers unless that is addressed. Doesn't mean rent controls are a bad idea but it's not magic.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 08:24 AM

#10783

joejoe1337

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 16,347

Rent controls are a bad idea unless you're actually going to build houses (which the UK has demonstrated time and time again we are unwilling to do)

Quote

10-03-2023 , 08:47 AM

#10784

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,892

Trouble is that everything is a bad idea (including doing nothing) unless supply/demand is addressed.

All that is argued about is where best to put the deckchairs

Quote

10-03-2023 , 09:39 AM

#10785

Husker

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Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,015

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

They're a bad idea when they lead to rents rising faster in the area they're implemented than elsewhere. They were warned this would happen at the outset but carried on regardless.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 10:00 AM

#10786

Trakk

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 284

It’s only new tenancies where the rent is increasing faster than the rest of the UK. So it seems it has had the effect of somewhat lower rents for long term renters, and somewhat higher rents for new renters. This doesn’t seem like a particularly good or fair outcome overall, and yeah the phrase “shuffling the deckchairs” seems appropriate here.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/...st-rises-in-uk

Quote

10-03-2023 , 10:04 AM

#10787

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,892

The new vs old tenancies may change over time. If legislation prevents no cause eviction and rent rises are forced to be below market then cheaper long lasting tenancies start to dominate. That can be good for everyone except the profiteers.

Ideally rent rises should perist to new tenancies so that there's no advantage to getting tenants out.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 10:36 AM

#10788

Trakk

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 284

Indeed, another problem of Scotlands implementation is that it incentivises landlords to remove their current tenants, in order to increase the rent charged to new tenants. It seems obvious that landlords should not be incentivised to do this sort of thing. It has also led to landlords threatening tenants that they will end the tenancy if increases above the cap are not agreed to.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 10:46 AM

#10789

wazz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 15,293

Quote:

Originally Posted by joejoe1337

Rent controls are a bad idea unless you're actually going to build houses (which the UK has demonstrated time and time again we are unwilling to do)

Rent control could and probably would go a long way towards ameliorating the housing shortage as it would make buying to let less profitable and you would see house prices go down as a result and the hoarding of property by rich in order to create artificial scarcity would go down commensurately. You could argue the housing shortage is both an inevitable product and a necessity in a market without controls, in the same way de beeres are incentivised to prevent the market from being flooded with diamonds, or clothing brands burn a lot of the clothes they don't sell at the end of the season in order to keep prices high.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 10:48 AM

#10790

Husker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 13,015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakk

6% overall in Scotland compared to 5.4% in England according to the ONS.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 10:49 AM

#10791

wazz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 15,293

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakk

This will inevitably balance out somewhat in the future. Even in very long term lets, they will move out eventually and the landlords will know that the market rate is higher than they've been charging and they will raise rent for the next tenant. Equilibrium, innit. Even though it may be unfair for the new renters (of which I am), we should beware of that mission creeping into an argument to raise the rents for the long term renters.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 11:29 AM

#10792

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,892

Ther rent needs to be on the property not the tenancy. Only way to rise the rent faster should be via some inspectorate to demonstarte an egregiously low rent* at end of contract or significant improvments to the property.

Tenants also need to be able to use the inspectorate to reduce the rent if the property has become significantly worse.

* the comparison being with other properties subject to similarly long rental rises.

Last edited by chezlaw; 10-03-2023 at 11:49 AM.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 11:39 AM

#10793

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 48,892

Suella Braverman

Quote:

"The wind of change that carried my own parents across the globe in the 20th century was a mere gust compared to the hurricane that is coming," she says, in reference to mass migration today.

****ing hell

Quote

10-03-2023 , 11:48 AM

#10794

diebitter

Grotesquely Handsome

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 66,402

Evoking the spirit of Enoch.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 11:52 AM

#10795

diebitter

Grotesquely Handsome

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 66,402

It makes me shudder. I remember being a teenager in South London pubs, hearing older blokes quoting Enoch's 'rivers of blood' whenever they got pissed off about the levels of immigration, and being disgusted but hiding it because I didn't want a kicking. I imagine the racists and neonazis quoting Suella in the near future.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 11:55 AM

#10796

wazz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 15,293

She's factually not wrong

Quote

10-03-2023 , 12:57 PM

#10797

jalfrezi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 16,717

She's not factually wrong, but clearly wants to pull the drawbridge up to prevent others from benefitting as her own parents did and therefore as she herself has.

What a ****.

Quote

10-03-2023 , 02:54 PM

#10798

57 On Red

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 6,482

Quote:

Originally Posted by Husker

Right to Buy was intended to reduce the number of Labour voters, Conservative doctrine being that social housing produces Labour voters and private home-ownership produces Conservative voters. (Which is probably true.) Cameron, when in office, actually refused to build social housing for that reason and said so right out loud. So Right to Buy was an effective policy within the electoral terms set by the Conservative government of the day.