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The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!)

12-30-2022 , 02:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browser2920
The second is Defund the Police. First of all, with the exception of a very small element on the far, far left, no one was actually advocating to eliminate the police and zero out their funding. Rather it was about taking some money from police departments while simultaneously removing certain functions and responsibilities, particularly irt responding to mental health related calls. So it was really meant to be a policy of relooking the role of armed police officers in certain roles. But that slogan completely misses the mark.
The message the left needed was one that encouraged more people to think of cops as the bad guys, that the police are rotten to the core and that incidents are not the result of a few bad apples. Defunding the police is one step you consider taking once you get everyone on board with that.
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12-30-2022 , 03:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browser2920
While Im doing that I'd like to hear everyones thoughts about labeling other posters with labels like that. If someone called me a racist, I would take great personal offense at that. I wouldn't expect a moderator to allow what I consider a serious insult to stand. But if I were a racist, I might take pride in that. But openly racists comments will get you banned anyway. So peeling this onion is exposing additional layers.
I think you should consider how racists who don't want it pointed out they are racist should be treated.

I'm very willing to describe the Republican Party as a racist political party. People who identify as Republican might take great personal offense at that, since they perceive an attack on Republicans as an attack on them. Racist Republicans might not want it acknowledged that they belong to a racist party because it makes it harder for them to be effectively racist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortstacker
However, it is vital that those words only be used where they are factually accurate, and not just
used as a rhetorical device to shout down those who aren't in lock-step with the Secular Left's interpretation of what constitutes racism, homophobia, etc.
Politics is boring without rhetorical devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
I think there really needs to be a better word than "homophobia" to express what is normally meant. A phobia is by definition an "irrational fear" of something, and not something that anyone would normally pass judgement on. Someone who has claustrophobia certainly isn't happy about it, and doesn't have the fear by choice. If someone really is homophobic, that should mean he is irrationally afraid of homosexuals, and will probably try to avoid being near them, but not because of any real reason, and it shouldn't imply that he wishes harm on them or wants to take away their rights.

The concept of homophobia should include the irrational fear that the active and open presence of gay people in society, especially around children, will make children become gay (with the implied belief that this is a bad thing). It doesn't have to mean that you are scared to be around homosexuals, although part of it is that some people seem to fear that exposure to gays might turn themselves gay.
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
12-30-2022 , 03:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison
The message the left needed was one that encouraged more people to think of cops as the bad guys, that the police are rotten to the core and that incidents are not the result of a few bad apples. Defunding the police is one step you consider taking once you get everyone on board with that.
I'm sure they knew that not many people would get on board with that.

Personally, as I have stated recently, I firmly believe some people become police because they want to shoot / harass / bully people, but clearly not ALL of them do, and it's very unlikely that most of them do. And I don't think society could function without some people doing at least some of the roles that the police currently do. I mean some people object to the comments I made in the Gun Control thread expressing my ideas about the police, but where I live a pretty mainstream belief seems to be that "All Cops Are Bastards" which is clearly ridiculous.
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
12-30-2022 , 04:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison
I think you should consider how racists who don't want it pointed out they are racist should be treated.

I'm very willing to describe the Republican Party as a racist political party. People who identify as Republican might take great personal offense at that, since they perceive an attack on Republicans as an attack on them. Racist Republicans might not want it acknowledged that they belong to a racist party because it makes it harder for them to be effectively racist.
I think you ought to be allowed to argue in favor of the bolded above in this forum, if that is indeed your opinion.

Similarly, I believe I should be allowed to argue for my belief that the Democrat Party is a demonic political party.

Fair enough?

Quote:
Politics is boring without rhetorical devices.
Quite so! But not for the purpose of silencing discussion.
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
12-30-2022 , 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
I'm sure they knew that not many people would get on board with that.

Personally, as I have stated recently, I firmly believe some people become police because they want to shoot / harass / bully people, but clearly not ALL of them do, and it's very unlikely that most of them do. And I don't think society could function without some people doing at least some of the roles that the police currently do. I mean some people object to the comments I made in the Gun Control thread expressing my ideas about the police, but where I live a pretty mainstream belief seems to be that "All Cops Are Bastards" which is clearly ridiculous.
Maybe it's not literally true that 100% of cops are bastards, but it is plausible that cop culture is a bastard culture and causes a lot of behavior that it becomes correct to treat all cops as if they are bastards.
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
12-30-2022 , 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortstacker
I think you ought to be allowed to argue in favor of the bolded above in this forum, if that is indeed your opinion.

Similarly, I believe I should be allowed to argue for my belief that the Democrat Party is a demonic political party.

Fair enough?
I'm willing to throw hands. I don't care if you want to argue that Democrats are controlled by evil supernatural beings.

I think the temperature is too lukewarm and needs to be raised in political discussions and I don't need to lob direct personal attacks at other posters.
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12-30-2022 , 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison
Maybe it's not literally true that 100% of cops are bastards, but it is plausible that cop culture is a bastard culture and causes a lot of behavior that it becomes correct to treat all cops as if they are bastards.
I've had friends and family members in law enforcement. I suspect that less than 50% of police officers would be aptly classified as "bastards."
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
12-30-2022 , 01:05 PM
When people talk about how it is a very small percentage of LEO that are actually "bad apples" irt being abusive I agree with that. The problem, IMO, is that the rest of the "good apples", because of the code of always having each others back, refuse to stop the bad apples, and either remain silent or lie about what happened to cover for a bad officer. That's how you end up things like with 4 officers putting in their official reports that the suspect was moving towards their fellow officer before he shot him. But video later shows the suspect was walking backwards away from the officer. Or multiple cops saying an officer was being dragged by a car when in fact no such thing occurred.

IMO cops can't cover for a bad cop and still be considered good cops. They are bad cops as well, and a major reason the brutality problem persists. And besides, isnt the old saying that one bad apple spoils the whole bunch? Until the "good" cops start to face real consequences for covering for bad cops, the culture isnt likely to change.
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
12-30-2022 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browser2920
When people talk about how it is a very small percentage of LEO that are actually "bad apples" irt being abusive I agree with that. The problem, IMO, is that the rest of the "good apples", because of the code of always having each others back, refuse to stop the bad apples, and either remain silent or lie about what happened to cover for a bad officer. That's how you end up things like with 4 officers putting in their official reports that the suspect was moving towards their fellow officer before he shot him. But video later shows the suspect was walking backwards away from the officer. Or multiple cops saying an officer was being dragged by a car when in fact no such thing occurred.

IMO cops can't cover for a bad cop and still be considered good cops. They are bad cops as well, and a major reason the brutality problem persists. And besides, isnt the old saying that one bad apple spoils the whole bunch? Until the "good" cops start to face real consequences for covering for bad cops, the culture isnt likely to change.
^^^ Agreed.

But it goes beyond that. The police culture also expects cops who know of serious wrong doing amongst other members (acting as gang enforcement, etc) to keep silent even if they find such illegal behaviour revolting. To be the whistleblower or the 'rat' even if on the side of right, is often seen as the biggest offense one can do.

That is not just a whole cloth fabrication of tv and movies and has been outed in many police internal investigation reports.


When the 'us versus them' dynamic stretches to protect cops from brazen illegality you can understand how every day interactions with society where the cop says 'person X did Y' as a way to keep the cop from getting in trouble is going to get a pass the majority of times. I don't even like imagining, in the pre body cam days, how many innocent people ended up in jail and with lives ruined with a false police report of 'he threw a punch and assaulted the officer' when no such thing happened.
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
12-30-2022 , 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison
Maybe it's not literally true that 100% of cops are bastards, but it is plausible that cop culture is a bastard culture and causes a lot of behavior that it becomes correct to treat all cops as if they are bastards.
Now that we've established a culture can be bad and that justifies treating all people in that group as bastards, what are the other bad cultures? Or is it a weird thing that only this specific culture is this way?
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12-30-2022 , 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by campfirewest
Now that we've established a culture can be bad and that justifies treating all people in that group as bastards, what are the other bad cultures? Or is it a weird thing that only this specific culture is this way?
You're free to discuss other cultures that you wish to discuss. (Maybe start a separate thread?) I'm not sure if we have exhausted all that we can say about cop culture, so I don't know that we need to derail this course of thought.

I'm inclined to think poorly of cops until we get cases where a cop is convicted of police brutality on the strength of testimony from other cops without any bodycam video.
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
12-30-2022 , 07:54 PM
Conservative culture is pretty awful.
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12-30-2022 , 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte
Conservative culture is pretty awful.
Just US conservatives or worldwide?
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12-30-2022 , 09:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison
Maybe it's not literally true that 100% of cops are bastards, but it is plausible that cop culture is a bastard culture and causes a lot of behavior that it becomes correct to treat all cops as if they are bastards.
What exactly would be involved in treating cops as if they were bastards? Not wanting to be their friend? I can't think of any other way I would treat someone who I considered to be a bastard.
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
12-30-2022 , 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browser2920
When people talk about how it is a very small percentage of LEO that are actually "bad apples" irt being abusive I agree with that. The problem, IMO, is that the rest of the "good apples", because of the code of always having each others back, refuse to stop the bad apples, and either remain silent or lie about what happened to cover for a bad officer. That's how you end up things like with 4 officers putting in their official reports that the suspect was moving towards their fellow officer before he shot him. But video later shows the suspect was walking backwards away from the officer. Or multiple cops saying an officer was being dragged by a car when in fact no such thing occurred.
If that kind of thing happens, those guys are not good cops, and they should be prosecuted severely and sent to prison for lying in court.
Maybe that would judge the needed cultural change.
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12-30-2022 , 11:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte
Conservative culture is pretty awful.
All cultures are pretty awful. Different cultures just manifest their awfulness in different ways.
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12-31-2022 , 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob
What exactly would be involved in treating cops as if they were bastards? Not wanting to be their friend? I can't think of any other way I would treat someone who I considered to be a bastard.
Take how right-wingers treat most parts of the government that aren't cops or the military and treat cops that way. Or worse.
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
12-31-2022 , 05:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison
Take how right-wingers treat most parts of the government that aren't cops or the military and treat cops that way. Or worse.
I have no idea what you mean by this.
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
12-31-2022 , 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortstacker
All cultures are pretty awful. Different cultures just manifest their awfulness in different ways.
Someone's been reading Tolstoy.

I disagree though that all cultures are awful.
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12-31-2022 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortstacker
All cultures are pretty awful. Different cultures just manifest their awfulness in different ways.
Lol that's a common tactic but facile. "Well nobody's perfect" isn't a great argument just because you don't want to defend people who elected Trump and some of the worst representatives in our lifetimes.
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12-31-2022 , 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecriture d'adulte
Lol that's a common tactic but facile. "Well nobody's perfect" isn't a great argument just because you don't want to defend people who elected Trump and some of the worst representatives in our lifetimes.
I agree with you that "Well nobody's perfect" isn't a great argument.

That being the case, I'm delighted that nobody in this thread is advancing that argument.
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12-31-2022 , 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Someone's been reading Tolstoy.

I disagree though that all cultures are awful.
Tolstoy is one of my favorite anarchists.
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01-01-2023 , 12:43 AM
Was with a French girl and an Israeli girl today and the French girl used "girls" to refer to me and the Israeli. I got over it quickly.
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
01-01-2023 , 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortstacker
Tolstoy is one of my favorite anarchists.
Read Anna Karenina and loved it but tried War and Peace twice and made it about 1/4th of the way both times but couldn't keep going
The Box of Chocolates Thread (You never know what you're going to get!) Quote
01-01-2023 , 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Was with a French girl and an Israeli girl today and the French girl used "girls" to refer to me and the Israeli. I got over it quickly.
What language was she speaking? Was it a linguistic quirk?
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