.

I'm not saying, rob, I'm asking. First of all, how in the absolute **** is the complete annihilation of the human species good for humans?

Secondly, if the ultimate goal is the complete annihilation of humans, and you can achieve that with a painless gas spread across the land which sterilizes all humans, wouldn't it be better to reach your ultimate goal faster by instead, spreading a painless gas across the land to kill all humans? If the goal is no humans on Earth, and you want to reach that goal, don't you want to reach it faster, rather than slower? And wouldn't killing all living humans accomplish that faster than merely sterilizing them and waiting for them to die a natural death of old age or disease?

Nobody takes Chillrob or his ridiculous theories about how non-existence is better than "pain" seriously, so why are you?

Just watch. We're gonna get somewhere with this.

It has been debated by some fairly serious philosophers, and it has been advocated by nearly every teenager who gets upset by over controlling parents and points out that "I didn't ask to be born!" They don't understand how right they are until much later if they study the issue and determine that it is completely beyond the pale immoral to bring a potential being into the a state of consciousness where it will certainly feel an extreme amount of pain (and that's the lucky ones who didn't ask to be born). The unlucky ones can end up as slaves, or as the subjects of horrible medical experiments, or die in torturous ways at the hands of an enemy.

Lirva's father didn't ask to be born, and there's a very good chance he often wished he hadn't been as he got tortured by his own father along with his mother.
Then I'm sure somehow his father was certain he would be a much better parent than his father had been and would never commit horrible abuses on his wife and children, but when the situation presented itself he actually inflicted even worse wounds on his wife and offspring. This generational trauma being passed down is extremely common, as it is nearly impossible for an adult who has only negative parenting role models to become a good parent. I knew I certainly didn't know for sure I would be any better a parent than was my horrible father, and I certainly didn't want to continue the cycle by having children myself who I would most likely seriously abuse despite my best efforts, as I inherited large amounts of the impatience, anger, and frustration which led my father to become abusive to his wife and children. I didn't want to gamble with someone else's life that way, so I determined the best course of action would be to not reproduce. However, men only have access to one extremely reliable birth control system, which they can completely handle themselves and don't need to be worried about it being sabotaged by a sexual partner, and that is a vasectomy, so that's what I got. As a side benefit, I could have sex without constant worry by me and my partners about unwanted pregnancy, allowing them and myself to enjoy intimacy more thoroughly. My only regret about the nearly painless procedure is that I didn't have it done sooner.

My goal is not the "annihilation" of humans or the destruction of even one human (although I do believe in euthanasia for those without the mental capability to make serious health decisions, and assisted suicide for those who desire to end their own life.) I personally would be fine taking a gas that has been proven painless, but I understand that many people would not be interested in prematurely ending their own lives no matter how clearly and logically it were explained. The pain of the final generation of **** sapiens, while very serious, will pale in mass and intensity to all of the past pain experienced by humans, and will amount to almost nothing when compared with the pain of all coming generations of humans which will exist in the infinite future if humanity does not go extinct. And I haven't even mentioned all of the pain and suffering inflicted by humans on their domestic and farm animals, most of whom have basically been manipulated over thousands of generations to become meat machines serving whatever needs humans could manipulate them into doing.

rob you're not even making sense with your self, buddy. You're not even agreeing with yourself on what you post, when I ask for clear clarification. So let's start there:

Are you saying you want the entire human race to disappear?

I have to ask yet again, because you said yes, and now you say no. Do you understand why I'm confused???

Do you understand why YOU are confused??? (by human annihilation, I'm referring to complete human extinction)

Rob started down the Buddha's 8 fold path but after the first realization he went straight to "all life should end".

lmao!

I don't know, i think i found chillrobs arguements to be surprisingly persuasive.

I think you all should get vascectomies now.

TTYL

Amazing!

There is no such thing as 'the human race', there are only individual humans, who have been brought into a lifetime of pain, without their consent. IMO this is the greatest injustice in the world.

I wish harm to no individuals (in this context). No one is harmed by the non-existence of another potential person. If 200 years from now no humans exist, this has not harmed you or anyone else, and it has helped the environment and most other species.

Well, sure, it should actually be human species, and I assume that's what was meant. And it certainly does exist.

No, there is a species, and there are individuals that are members of that species.

Thankfully, I'm pretty sure the vast majority find the good outweighs the bad.

Yes, you've made that very clear. But "without their consent" seems like a really weird thing to get hung up on. Every living thing is brought into existence without their consent; how else could it possibly work? I expect all living things experience pain throughout their lifetimes. Would it be better if no living things were to exist?

On this, I'll take your side in this dispute with LirvA. As ridiculous and objectionable I find your viewpoints around the existence of humans, it's silly to keep making a direct comparison to murdering people.

Well Bobo, if he had his way and the entire human population was sterilized, painlessly of course, and it led to the complete extinction of **** sapiens, how is that not worse than murdering like 10 people? If 10 people are murdered by someone, there are still 7.888 billion people, minus 10. If the entire human species went extinct, there would be 0 humans, which is 7.888 billion minus 7.888 billion. It's pretty clear to me that this is simply the trolley problem and his views are worse than anything any serial killer could ever do. It makes Hitler look like a baby kitten.

Well you should be arresting everyone who uses birth control then. You fail to understand what is actually the wrong about murder, no wonder you idolize serial killers.
I suppose you also believe that murdering three people is just fine, as long as you have four children, as that is a net positive for humanity (in raw numbers).

unchillrob, do you understand that there is a huge difference between you sterilizing your cat, and you sterilizing the entire global population of cats?


robski, first of all, consent is something that people will free will and bodily autonomy can do or not do. If a person does not exist, they cannot consent or not consent to anything, they do not exist. Reproducing and creating a human does not instantly create a consenting person. Babies cannot consent or not consent, because they are not developed/grown enough to have established their own personality and their own autonomy and free will, independent of their parents. Do you get understand this? You're advocating for forced sterilization of the entire global human population, without their consent. What YOU are advocating for is an absolutely horrific violation of human's autonomy, free will, and consent. Reproducing and giving birth to a baby does not do that. Do you get that???



You said this would be good for Earth, and humans. How is the complete extinction of human beings good for humans? Also, in what context do you wish harm to individuals?

But what if humans are still evolving and the only intelligent species, then we might doom the universe to never being thought about.

Using birth control does not murder anyone, Rob. A better argument for you would be abortion.

I do not idolize serial killers and I certainly do not condone murder, Rob. No, I don't believe murdering three people is just fine. I don't believe murdering any people is fine.

... political assassinations is another story, cause Putin gotta go.

This is such a good post.

Correct, a potential human cannot give consent, so it is wrong to impose a lifetime of pain on them.

However, many restrictions of lesser importance are placed on humans all the time in order to prevent harm to others. We don't allow someone to drive through a school parking lot at 100 mph, taking away one of their choices (without the driver's consent) in order to protect possible harm done to others. This is similar to my view on restricting reproduction.

As I have already stated, I believe this policy would be good for humans because no humans would ever again feel pain. I have already said this a few times. I understand you disagree, as do most people, so you are not presenting me with anything new to consider, as you seem to believe.

It's very silly for you to keep saying the same thing over and over and asking me the same questions over and over.

I do wish harm to certain individual humans for reasons specific to them (like your reasonable animus against Putin, which I share).

Yes, birth control, including sterilization (my chosen form of birth control) does not murder anyone, but you keep claiming they are equivalent.

unchillrob, life is more than just pain. Life has ups and downs, happiness and sadness, pain and elation. As above, so below. Yin and Yang. You are projecting your severe depression onto the entire human species. Just because you are unhappy and you either feel nothing but pain, or you perceive you feel nothing but pain, doesn't mean that's the case for everyone else. This is like your choice for your cat vs your choice for every cat in the world. You can make your choice for yourself, but you cannot make it for others.

An individual taking birth control for themself is a lot different than an individual forcing birth control on every human on Earth, DUCY?

If a person does not exist, there is no 'them', rob. Even when a baby is born it cannot consent or not consent, it is totally dependent upon its parents.

Sure, and it's also a lot different than murder, which was my point.

And I am not forcing anything on anyone, just discussing ethics, about which we have differing opinions but you seem to be taking very personally.

Also, I do not have severe depression, from your posts here that seems to be you. I do hope it improves for you, like it has for me.