Read my post. Then your post. Then my post. Then your post. Back and forth, back and forth. And when you've done that a half dozen times, can you tell me again where I said the belgian waffle race was "non-important"?

Is there a reason why you called it an amateur race that no one here cares about while at the same time considering it important?

Well, I did repeat Bobo's characterization that it is an amateur race without doing a deep dive. Firstly, saying something is amateur is not the same as saying it is "nonimportant". Although....is Bobo not...right? Like sure there is a small prize purse for the top couple people but I don't think that really qualifies it as professional. Regardless, the point about no one here caring about it was also not meant to be "nonimportant"....like I told you to reread my post a few times where I specifically am making a point about social media amplification? Did you just not get that?

Sure social media amplifies divisive topics.. That's not exactly an unknown phenomena.

There is massive prize money in high schools sports in the form of scholarships and NIL deals - which includes a good education, housing, food, training in whatever sport, team apparel, cash, etc. If you play good in high school you essentially sign a 4 year deal providing all of the above.

In some sports, most of which are women's sports but some men's sports, the prize money in high school sports (scholarships + NIL deals) is greater than that of what the pros in that sport make in prize money especially when you consider a scholarship to a big college also opens the doors for NIL deals. I would imagine that the 2 sports with the highest average salary for female professional athletes are basketball and soccer and their min. salaries are 60k & 35k respectfully. I'm not sure about the WNBA, but the average salary in the NWSL is 54k, but the salaries are super top heavy (the stars are making a large portion of the 1.1M salary cap) so a huge majority of players are making less than 45k. When you look beyond the 3-4 biggest female sports I would imagine a 4 year scholarship is much more than the average salary of a pro in that sport.

Elite professional sports recruit their participants from amateur, college and school sports. That's the career progression. It is obvious that men and boys, however they 'identify', should not compete in women's and girl's sports, as that is cheating. So the rules increasingly adopted by elite sporting bodies -- that 'identity' doesn't count, and men and boys can't cheat by competing in women's and girls' divisions -- need to be applied all down the line into school sports. (And as we all know, the US national women's soccer team got humiliated by a bunch of schoolboys.) Otherwise there is no point in women or girls even turning up and ultimately everyone will just walk away, the event being of no interest when men and boys are cheating by competing.

Note that if the line of inclusion is drawn at something like college level D1 sports, then restricting those types of scholarships for female college athletics to only cis women isn't an argument for making a similar restriction in highschool. For instance, if a trans woman wins a particular race but isn't eligible for the scholarship, the cis woman who came second would still be the best cis woman eligible.

This argument is sillier than bahbahmickey's, but it falls to the same point as above.

I think you need to get you story straight. 5k for winning a race is small potatoes. Compare to the prizes for winning the Boston marathon for the different divisions:

1st
$150,000
$25,000
$5,000
$1,500
2nd
$75,000
$15,000
$2,500
$750
3rd
$40,000
$7,500
$1,500
$500
4th
$25,000
$4,500

Lol? You're really trying to compare the Belgian waffle series to the Boston marathon and act that like is proving something?

How much is the average first place on the LPGA tour? You should go through all of those next for us.

I think this is ultimately what is going to happen. At some point enough biological males will be competing in girls sports that girls are just going to not want to play anymore, and membership will decline.

At that point the powers that be will have to decide to either accept this or find some pretense to change the rules to stop biological males from participating. I am guessing they will do the latter, because at the end of the day youth sports is a business, and the system will only be able to tolerate so much lost revenue before it adapts.

No, just putting into prospective what you consider serious prize money. I can win more in my local $200.00 poker tournament this weekend.

Your concern about an acceptable win rate of prize money is simply stupid. Especially when you find a 1400% acceptable. Cis woman competitors would be abandoning these events long before the win rate is 15% is reached. Simple economics will control these markets. Money perverts sports and fair competition more than any transgender participation.

The real issue is how transgender participation effects truly amateur women's sports.

I'm fine considering $5,000 prize serious money. Obviously that's going to be relative to the individual and the sport in question but I can't imagine that women's cycling is attracting too many sponsorship deals so for that sport it likely it serious.

As for what you consider to be the real issue-- it's interesting how everyone in this thread seems to have a different opinion there.

I saw some of the testimony from both Riley Gaines and the President of the HRC Kelly Robinson .

Kelly Robinson testifying that Lia Thomas has no advantage over biological females in swimming and cited as an example that Serena Williams can beat men easily . Though she had no response to the fact Serena was beat by a man ranked in the 200's

I think were all for little kids playing sports together but if you can not admit basic science I am not sure how you come to a compromise on trans women in women's sport

I don't think she meant men who play professional tennis but rather men who have never been on a tennis court. But nice try.

I am not sure what nice try is . Anyone with half a brain knows that I have zero chance taking a point of Serena Williams or the 200 th ranked woman in tennis unless they double vaulted

I thought it seemed pretty clear that lady meant professional male players could not beat Serena.

Because, like, of course Serena can beat the average bum off the internet, but that says nothing about the difference between male and female athletes, which is what they were discussing.

So she was just lying then?

I don't follow tennis at all, but I'm sure that most professional male b players could beat her.

Pretty sure the post you replied to here was a sarcastic one.

I don't think she was deliberately trying to mislead saying Serena could beat male professional players, I just think she just drank far too much cool aid and generally didn't know much about sports.

Robinson was referring, disingenuously, to a British 2019 poll by YouGov in which 12% of men and 3% of women optimistically said that, if they were playing 'their very best tennis,' they might take a single point off Serena Williams. Not that they could beat her.

https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...fe83f15/gender

Both Williams sisters meanwhile, at the peak of their powers, got slaughtered one after the other in single-set matches by the men's world No.203, who was semi-retired, prepped for the matches by sinking a few beers and smoking some cigs while the sisters busily hit up on the practice court, and held back on his shots so as not to humiliate the sisters too badly.

The Ukraine war thread has me wondering what uke, trolly, gangsta would do about trans people and conscription.

Do you force trans men to fight, allow trans women to flee? What about non binary.

I think uke is agnostic in elite level sports, but seems hard to be agnostic when the stakes are this high.

I don’t think there are as many trans in Ukraine but if hypothetically there was and every coward who didn’t want to fight claimed non binary or trans what do u do? Give up? Force everyone to fight?

I've seen a number of stories of courage and heroism from Ukraine's LGBT community, but honestly they have bigger ****ing things to worry about right now than your thought experiments.

So then trans men should be forced to fight?

I never said they weren’t courageous. I said cowards would pretend to be trans to get out of service.

I didn’t know there was much of a Trans community in Ukraine. Since there is, this really isn’t a thought experiment.

What is zelelskis policy on trans draft dodgers? And do you agree with it?

I’m assuming he uses biological sex to determine whether you would be drafted or not. Would you change this?