I can't answer for the other fella

Don't be dense.

You cherrypicked that sentence out of the post and completely ignored the context around it that makes it abundantly clear that I'm talking about physiology.

Yes I picked that sentence out of the post because it stuck out to me. You said boys "wanting to play on the girls' team," but I don't know if such boys exist. Is it really a stretch to think you might be referring to trans girls when you say boys there?

You're trying to get into motive.

Motives don't matter in this situation. Biology does.

These word games about "excluded" from you guys are weird. "not allowing trans girls to join" seems like the exact same thing as "excluding". Why are we playing faux-confused. We all know we are talking about excluding trans girls from girls teams. That is the subject matter of the thread. It's perfectly fine and accurate to say excluding here.

I don't know whether people think this is edgy or something, but this is a pretty shitty way to describe being trans.

No, sorry you inferred that. Some of us having been saying over and over that no one is trying to expose trans kids from sports in general, and you keep misrepresenting that.

It depends on what you mean by "really trans". Some people agree with the concept that some people born male feel like they are female (or vice versa). Others think that those thoughts bactually make them female.

You keep saying people are trying to exclude trans kids but just from particular teams, from "sports", which is obviously completely different.

Nah it's completely dishonest.

That's the whole point? Transphobes are grown-up schoolyard bullies who need to mock and demean people who are different.

Dividing sports by sex rather than gender seems like it would exclude or include everyone equally?

Nope they want you to ignore the science. The left only accepts science when it fits their agenda

Can you find anyone who has stated that trans girls don't have, on average, a competitive advantage against cis girls, on average, in sports?

This is too far down the psychological rabbit hole for the issue at hand. Every single person with one of these quirks has their own reasons, goals, and justifications for their choices. But sports divisions don't care about feelings. Girls get their own teams in most sports because of inherent physical differences creating a grossly uneven playing field otherwise. Everyone knows this, but the left is just completely ignoring this common sense fact because they can use peoples' opposition to push some bullshit narrative about bigotry.

Girls can already try out for the primary team in nearly all cases. Few do, and fewer still would make that team because they're going to get destroyed out there. Female-only teams exist to give them a place to compete and thrive.

In every professional sport, women aren't prevented from being in the premier leagues. MLB, NFL, NBA, PGA, etc. All would happily showcase women if there were any qualified candidates, but no team is going to intentionally torpedo their chances at winning just in the name of gender equality.

I get why a trans girl would want to play on the traditional girl's team. I just reject those reasons as irrelevant. If you want to find ways to socialize with your chosen gender, pick an activity other than their sex-restricted sports teams.

What exactly is this "agenda?"

THIS IS THE REAL QUESTION

More self-parody, I see.

The agenda in this case is to give super special snowflake status to the latest trend of special snowflakes, and make those evil right-wingers look bad in the process.

I love that they completely throw cisgender females under the bus here because run-of-the-mill womanhood no longer tickles their social justice dopamine receptors.

The spirit of competition in these teams was never in question. The problem is that the rules were created before anyone imagined that we'd change the basic definition of male and female. Had we known at the time, I'm sure the rules would've been more specific.

Don't fall into the trap of using the CIS

Pick your battles.

If you want to replace "cisgender" with "actual" in your head, go for it. But if you do it out loud, you'll never get beyond that part of the conversation. Senseless arguing on the internet should be about give and take.

It rarely is, but it should be.

Again with the ridiculous word games. We are all obviously talking about the same thing, namely excluding trans girls from girls teams. Nobody should be faux confused over this.

I suspect what is going on a bit unspoken by all these "but but but they can play on boys teams!" rejoiners is the sense that this is a sort of equivalent or equally acceptable option. But of course it isn't. A trans girl trying to be a girl in every aspect of their life and to be accepted as a girl may quite reasonably not think playing on the boys team gives an interchangeable experience and excluding them from girls sports has the same effect as excluding them from all sports. One can argue - poorly, I think - that the consequences for youth sport are so negative that despite the big negatives of excluding trans girls it must happen, but at least you all should be honest and stop implying these consequences aren't very real and significant with the phraseology you choose.

Is it your position that the experience of trans girls is more important than the experience of cis girls?

Remember a little earlier in this thread when you falsely put in quotes that I had said something was "important" - and then never responded when I pointed out I had never said that? Well, guess what, I similarly didn't suggest or think anything about "importance" here either.

Let's take something not particularly high stakes as a concrete example, like a grade 9 school baseball team likely to play other schools in the city. I think a trans girl should be included in this not excluded. I don't think it is zero sum. I think the trans girl has a huge potential benefit experiencing the camaraderie of being accepted as part of that team when they might feel ostracized in so many aspects of their lives. So the benefits can be really large. The sort of abstract ability to rank-order local school teams might slightly be compromised, but I judge this "negative" as pretty marginal in comparison, and sometimes even positive because that camaraderie with people with diverse backgrounds can sometimes surprise you in the positive spillover effects. None of this is saying trans people are more important than cis people.

Well it is quite clear you don't have much practice if you think "the CIS" is the right way to say it.