I got the people responsible for the creation of Israel as solidly ahead of those two, but facts don't penetrate your world.

Dem's are pro Palestine over Israel.

Republicans are Pro Israel.

Watch how deep and hateful this position moves.

If even Mayor Pete! is pro Palestine, good grief.

No, it's not that simple for Dems.

But for Republicans it is that simple.

Why is, say, favoring a two state solution hateful?

For Israel. Or against it.

took 6,00,000 to make it that way.

never forget!

Well, always cool to be accused of being in favor of genocide. Have fun, bro.

If the shoe fits.

Obviously have no sense of history.

Honestly Israel is treated very unfairly by the US. Russia spends like $50k on facebook ads and they are accused of massive election tampering, meanwhile AIPAC spends $3.5m lobbying and is worshipped as an infallible pillar by the mainstream parties. Israel has done a lot of meddling and Saudi Arabia is much worse. Our allies in that region are for convenience of the oil companies who need a military staging ground to artificially manipulate the price of crude. Israel would be wise to see that much of the American public is turning away from them. America has a very soft spot for the Jewish people but the Israeli right alienates our sympathy with their manipulative and foul nature.

This is satire, right?

https://www.ushmm.org/confront-antis...and-distortion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1Mc-jqRhlI

9, plus or minus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_foreign_aid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...orial_disputes

Dems are pretty universally pro-Israel. There were lots of Democrats voting for bills to make it illegal to support boycotts of Israel.

But, you can be pro-Israel and not blindly love everything they do. Same thing with being pro-America. At least you can do these things if you're not a bootlicker. Not Democrats as a whole, but decent people can support Israel when it's right (Operation Brothers) and critical when it's wrong (blockading Gaza). Bootlickers are of the mindset "love it or leave it" here and "for Israel or against it". The worship of States and State power reminds me of the Commies.

Israel spent $24M lobbying the US in 2017-2108, which is far more than AIPAC spent. But then South Korea spent $70M. And Japan spent $51M. And the UAE spent $27M.

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/201...tch-exclusive/

Ah, the old dogwhistle.

There is certainly issues on the far left regarding Israel policy, one of the foremost being either a strange silence or outright acknowledgement of Hamas as a legitimate government of Gaza. Which is a strange way to approach an organization which stayed in power through ignoring a democratic election and killing political opponents, and which to this day runs an independent military branch that attacks civilians routinely.

But a demand that the occupation of the West Bank should be cease or be rolled back is not one of those issues. Many aspects of the occupation has been declared to be in violation of international law by the UN.

The United States runs a military branch that routinely attacks civilians.

(so does Israel)

So Fly's first substantiative contribution to this thread is a whataboutism argument defending Hamas.

I for one am shocked. I'll be on my fainting couch for a little bit if anyone needs me.

The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades is not a state branch, it is a paramilitary political organization and more reminiscent something like the Sturmabteilung or the provisional IRA.

If it makes you feel better to use whataboutism to ignore what they stand for, feel free.

This sounds antisemitic to me.. Not a fan of the word choices of "manipulative" and "foul nature"

What happened to the left preaching "take a look at yourself and don't get defensive when you are getting called a racist" A lot of people think the left has problem with antisemitism. Maybe you should listen to all of the Jewish voices who say there is a problem of antisemitism in the party. I know many Jews who will not vote democrat for this reason. Look at the womens pride march, black lives matter, all of these "left groups" have anti-israel stuff built into them.

The problem is that it's faux concern. If this were a legit thread about antisemitism it would have definitely included the types of people who are somewhat routinely trying to either blow up or shoot people at synagogues or JCCs in the United States and chanting en masse "Jews will not replace us", ie the Right.

There's antisemitism on all sides, but this thread is about Trumpy identity politics.

Micro,
Do you agree that this happens and that Israel is used this way by those (nominally) left-of-center who don't actually wish to give any sort of real fp critique?

For the point I made, I actually think it is mainly out of ignorance. I think many on the more verbal left aren't aware the internal politics of Palestine, living instead in a world where the only bad party is Israel. The truth is a fair more nuanced than that.

Where I hold that it gets anti-semitic is when these beliefs translate into a refusal to learn and clinging onto the "I am only criticizing Israel the state" slogan. Because what you end up with is that a fair bit of people supporting an organization that runs a paramilitary wing that routinely executes political terror (against both Israelis and Palestinians).

Of course, in reference to the statements of Pete Buttigieg, this point is irrelevant. You can be opposed to Israel's illegal occupation practices and also hold that Hamas' is an illegitimate Gaza government that uses political terror. Frankly I hold that this is the sane position.

Luckbox,

That's a hard question to answer because I don't think we agree on what the "fake-left" is. The fakers who are generally considered on the left, like say Schumer, are rabidly pro-Israel. But my best shot is that no, I don't think that people in a position of power in the US are often criticizing Israel because they're trying to avoid more broad criticism of fp generally. There are very few people in government who are generally critical of Israel and I think those people (like AOC) are broadly critical of US fp.

It's not whataboutism, Hamas and the government of Israel are roughly morally equivalent.

Only one of them is a client state of America, though.

Listen guys anti-semitism is real and it is bad and it exists on both political sides, but when you guys have exactly the same views on immigration as Robert Bowers you don't get to have this chat.

Kelhus, you personally spread insane anti-semitic conspiracies with the "Jews" part cropped out in this forum and when people ask who the puppetmasters are, you refuse to answer because you know well named won't like when you say Soros. But we know what you mean!