Bernie is a mensch.

There were loads of your nazis before the actual nazis.

Don't get yourself into a temporal tizzy.

I agree that antisemitism is a serious thing but I don't accept the idea that a thread on one subject diminishes some other subject. Any thread about anti-semitism from the left is obviously going to end up talking about it from the right too. We can talk about both. Obviously it exists on the right as well and is a bigger problem.

Virtually no one on the left hates Israel because of the Jews. Even if you narrowed it down to just people who support BDS, probably only a subset of 'westernized arabs' would hate Israel for this reason. Calling the left obvert closet racists, as if this is a large part of their power dynamic is a hare-brained hypocrital YouTube trope by ****ty 'battlefield of ideas' morons like Shapiro. Their only purpose is owning libs in safe spaces where their ideas won't actually be challenged.


What percentage of the tikitorch crew has dropped the n bomb in casual conversation? It's probably not even close.

Well, I have to note that when it comes to calling people "racist," it does not appear that many on the left are willing to make a distinction between actually being a racist and merely using a talking point that racists employ (normally in a disingenuous manner).

However, in this case (where they are the ones being called bigots) it appears the left is much more willing to be magnamimous and say one should take motive into account.

Quite a shocking discrepancy. Looks like its back to the old fainting couch for me.

I tend to agree that even the extremists on the left who think Israel doesn't have a right to exist are more motivated by anti-imperialism than anything else. I've tried to make the point in this thread that what Buttigieg/Vox is accused of doing is pandering to this crowd and the set on the left who think that Israel is one of the biggest foriegn policy issues. I agree that that isn't motivated by antisemitism but I won't go as far as saying that it doesn't exist on the left either.

damn im not gonna read after page one smudger gave me brain cancer im out

The thread is literally about the lefts motivation for 'hating jews' via an 'they hate israel' proxy. Last week at a Trump rally they were chanting about sending back an American-born, American-citizen to 'where they came from.' Virtually all of those people chanting have called someone a N behind closed doors. They are both obverly and closetly racist. The left is neither. See my point?

I appreciate your point but if the premises of this thread are slightly off that certainly doesn't mean it shouldn't be a topic of discussion. The left does focus a lot on Israel. Why not also on Saudi Arabia? Or if they do why does it seem like Israel gets all the attention? Those are valid questions.

The war in Yemen was subject of the war powers act Yemen resolution. Has there been similar action take against Israel this year? Most 'liberals' supported the anti-BDS legislation that recently passed. Objectively, more action has been taken against SA than Israel.

The fact that you put "liberals" in quotes sort of defeats your post. It definitely wasn't the claim that congress or the democrats are disproportionately going after Israel--but rather the segment of the left that is hip to imperialism but not much else. Although the point about Yemen is worth noting. I'm cynical that it was for political purposes but it is somewhat surprising even.

Well man, the anti-bds bill is basically an anticonstitution bill. The problem was that voting against it was political suicide. I put liberals in quotes because the far left was pretty much against it, but many in this camp had to abandon the position for political reasons. They made pretty standard political apologies for why they voted for the anti-bds bill. Also, there is not really a good definition for any political term and everything is subjective.

Regarding Yemen, I don't think it was a political bill at all. The left viewpoint is exactly that the imperial military state is out of control. They believe this because it is. We have special forces in like 140 countries and there are 180 or something on earth. Its bat**** insane. We spend at least 6% of Gee Dee Pee, I mean the entire ****ing enchalada on 'defence.' Even if you want to start rationalizing very 'pragmatically' from the nation state perspective about the cost of oil and to enforcing supremacy of the dollar as the world currency, its a pretty far stretch that the payoff is +EV. The only rational explanation is that our state is being looted by arms and oil companies. Do you really think SA, Israel, Iran, China or anyone is going to give a crap with then the USA is dead and gone? Not any more than we will care if kill Venezuela and ruin their country for the next 100 years. There's always some alpha country imposing its will upon others, but we have our hand in every pie and its likely not sustainable.

It's political because the left isn't represented in congress outside of a handful of people who may or may not be more focused on race > class. There were plenty of opportunities to condemn Obama's drone bombings but did they? I still think it's a good thing. Congress is supposed to use its say in these matters. But I can't imagine it would happen were it not for Trump. If there are other significant anti-war actions that congress has take in recent memory then I'll retract my claim.

Ted Lieu introduced a bill to limit the sale of munitions to SA because of Yemen. In the GOP controlled congress it never made it to a vote.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hjres90

The POTUSes of your own party are always dangerous especially if the opposition has control of congress. Bill Clinton was able to "reform" welfare, and pass the crime bill because he could count on loyalty from half the Dems and those issues were popular with the GOP. He almost privatized SS. Similarly Obama could pump the military as much as he wanted at any time. And similarly Reagan could do amnesty. Almost 3 times as many Democrats voted for that as Republicans.

Depends on the right wing talking point. Some have plausible justifications that aren’t racist while others, even while not explicitly racist, would just never be something you’d make an issue of if it wasn’t exactly what it looked like.

Criticism of Israel clearly falls into the former (and Jews themselves are often very vocal on the matter). And its a legitimate priority in the context of international relations since they’re the recipient of huge sums in foreign aid and have been perpetually protected by the us in facing any repercussions for their transgressions. North Korea may be far worse but there’s a much less clear path to getting desired change.

There is a clear path towards resolving the Israel-Palestinian conflict? What is it, out of curiosity?

Normally I would agree that Godwin's law can become dreary.

However, when people hint and allude to propaganda and conspiracy theories started by literal Nazis in order to advance Nazism, it isn't Godwin's law anymore. It's just, you know, actual Nazism.

Perhaps some think this is offensive or just something I say to claim moral superiority. It is not. This is merely how these ideologies enter the mainstream. Hitler didn't stand on stage and tell people he was going to kill all the Jews, he stood on stage and told people rich and powerful Jews were subverting their nation. And the people who heard and believed those words spread them to their friends, neighbors and other people they encountered until they became the accepted reality.

And no, I don't accept putting a question mark behind arguments as "talking about it". Such rhetoric is so blindly transparent that anyone above the IQ of an average refrigerator can see through it. Such so-called "talking about it" is an attempt to pass it into conversation. People just "talking about it" so they can bypass filters and posting rules is the reason nonsense like this spreads like wildfire through social media and out-number factual accounts.

Are you still trying to claim that talking about Soros = nazis? I'm just waking up and don't want to do this today again today but I will if I need to, but that is literally some of the dumebst **** I've come across in a while here and there is a lot of dumb stuff here.
I think you make good posts normally TD but have you ever considered just googling Soros? Where is this idea that he ****s roses coming from?

What are we talking about? How NGOs can run like a parallel state department?

That is really really bad stuff.

LOL even after his guardian angel came through and cleaned the slate Luckbox REALLY REALLY wants to get in his two minutes hate.


Buddy that you're baffled that all the people who read grownup newspapers disagree with you could be easily solved if you'd just share with us your Youtube subscription list so we could also see the light! Come on, pal. Help us out! Not everyone had parents as rich as you, and many of us are handicapped by college degrees.

I'm pretty sure I understand why people seeming to say "you can't talk about X" makes you want to talk about X, but it's really not actually that interesting, so how about we just drop it?

Fly? What is the argument about Soros? What is yours?

I just need to understand people's position on Soros then I'm fine letting it go. I genuinely don't understand why he is seen as some untouchable figure who if criticized means the person doing it is a nazi.

It's just what I said in my first post; people draw inferences because of how frequently mentions of his name are connected to anti-Semitism.

But you are correct that the inference is not accurate literally 100% of the time.

That's pretty much it.