To all who claim to love democracy - Page 9 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

I think the government could be adequately funded by tariffs,user fees, and a Geo Tax (much like Alaska has on oil.)

Nobody should "own" natural resources. A Citizens Dividend on a national level could be implemented similar to the Alaska model.

But that would be theft by taxing income from corporations no ?

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09-21-2020 , 05:39 PM

#202

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Democracy is us consenting to the imposition of particular acts that we don't personally agree with.

Remove democracy and yes taxation is theft. The moral justification for all laws is gone.

The moral justification is in the Magic Book written by the disciples of the Sky Wizard. It's almost like you haven't been paying attention.

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09-21-2020 , 05:40 PM

#203

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,068

I hope you have been listening D2 and now grasp why we shouldn't remove or reduce peoples votes.

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09-21-2020 , 05:41 PM

#204

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Don't bother if you're just going to post the one quote and ignore all the context like I know you're going to.

According to Snopes, here is the quote:

"We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."

You are correct that I took the quote out of context.

I apologize for misrepresenting Speaker Pelosi.

It is still a puzzling quote, because according to the Washington Post, the Bill had been online for anyone to see for 72 hours before the vote.

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09-21-2020 , 05:41 PM

#205

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

I hope you have been listening D2 and now grasp why we shouldn't remove or reduce peoples votes.

Erm, I have certainly been listening, but I have reached the opposite conclusion.

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09-21-2020 , 05:42 PM

#206

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,068

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Before 1915, almost all funding for the federal government came from tariffs. There was no income tax.

Things can change in a democracy

If you really want to blame something for income tax then it stems from the absolute disaster of fighting the american war of independence

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09-21-2020 , 05:43 PM

#207

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montrealcorp

But that would be theft by taxing income from corporations no ?

Sorta. The corporations would in effect be "leasing" the natural resources from the citizenry.

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09-21-2020 , 05:43 PM

#208

itshotinvegas

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 7,899

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl

https://www.vox.com/21448334/republi...burg-democracy

"They can go out there and get more votes" is true regardless of how uneven the playing field is. We could imagine a scenario where the Democrats would only govern if they could convince the Republican nominee to vote Democratic. His vote is up for grabs right? What would anyone have to complain about?

Obama signed over 1200 pieces of legislation into law.

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09-21-2020 , 05:45 PM

#209

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

The moral justification is in the Magic Book written by the disciples of the Sky Wizard. It's almost like you haven't been paying attention.

What is the "Magic Book", and who is the "Sky Wizard?"

Thanks in advance.

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09-21-2020 , 05:45 PM

#210

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,068

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

Erm, I have certainly been listening, but I have reached the opposite conclusion.

Ok well at least you're now aware that you want to impose laws on people with diminished moral authority. Taxation will become more like theft.

Even if you somehow still think it is a good idea in principle, you should realise what would happen in practice.

Quote

09-21-2020 , 05:46 PM

#211

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Things can change in a democracy

If you really want to blame something for income tax then it stems from the absolute disaster of fighting the american war of independence

As I've said in this Forum before, had I been around in 1776 I probably would have opposed the revolution.

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09-21-2020 , 05:47 PM

#212

Huehuecoyotl

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 29,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Obama signed over 1200 pieces of legislation into law.

And?

Quote

09-21-2020 , 05:49 PM

#213

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

As I've said in this Forum before, had I been around in 1776 I probably would have opposed the revolution.

d2_e4 and I should both be British.

Last edited by lagtight; 09-21-2020 at 05:51 PM. Reason: Spelling

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09-21-2020 , 05:53 PM

#214

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Meh, you want to make an omelette, you gotta break a few eggs.

10 years ago I would have vehemently argued the opposite side to the side which I am now arguing. With the benefit of those 10 years, I have entrenched my view that the vast majority of people are ****ing morons, and couldn't be trusted to boil an egg, let alone make decisions that affect the fate of the whole human race.

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09-21-2020 , 05:53 PM

#215

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,068

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

As I've said in this Forum before, had I been around in 1776 I probably would have opposed the revolution.

Oh I don't oppose the revolution particularly. The tragedy and travesty was the brits fighting the war.

Quote

09-21-2020 , 05:55 PM

#216

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

What is the "Magic Book", and who is the "Sky Wizard?"

Thanks in advance.

You tell me, you wrote a ****ing thesis on it. I just know it's something you nutjobs read and then talk to some imaginary dude asking him to suspend the laws of physics and probability for your benefit.

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09-21-2020 , 06:01 PM

#217

chezlaw

Limey Bastard

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,068

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

Maybe you have but your view on the moronicity of people is entirely besides the point. Theft doesn't become ok because people are stupid (even if they were)

Quote

09-21-2020 , 06:03 PM

#218

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

I must confess that I can't boil an egg.

I used to have toast for breakfast. But then I moved and lost the recipe.

Quote

09-21-2020 , 06:04 PM

#219

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

Since you won't answer my question, I shall henceforth not engage you in conversation.

Quote

09-21-2020 , 06:05 PM

#220

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

I must confess that I can't boil an egg.

I used to have toast for breakfast. But then I moved and lost the recipe.

Say ROAST out loud 5 times.

What do you put in a toaster?

Quote

09-21-2020 , 06:06 PM

#221

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Since you won't answer my question, I shall henceforth not engage you in conversation.

Who're you kidding, you love chatting to me. Your little tantrums when you put me on ignore on 10 minutes aren't fooling anyone.

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09-21-2020 , 06:07 PM

#222

Schlitz mmmm

banned

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 28,199

attitude is everything

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09-21-2020 , 06:07 PM

#223

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

It was a quip to mock the people who were repeatedly and deliberately lying about the contents of the bill. It's a bad soundbite out of context, but the intention was that everyone would be able to see that all the liars were full of **** when none of their lies came true after the bill got passed.

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09-21-2020 , 06:07 PM

#224

Schlitz mmmm

banned

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 28,199

not icy altitude

Quote

09-21-2020 , 06:13 PM

#225

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Maybe you have but your view on the moronicity of people is entirely besides the point. Theft doesn't become ok because people are stupid (even if they were)

Sure, let them vote on tax rates then, and other stuff that matters in the immediate future, which is all that most people are capable of considering.

Most people are not strategicians, and they shouldn't be asked to be such. There is no reason why our policy on e.g. environmental regulation should be decided by the guy who screamed "build the wall to keep all the cockroaches out" and successfully appealed to the lowest common denominator in society.

"But they are dumb and they will vote for a tax rate of zero", I hear you say. Well, that sounds like a failure of democracy with a little "tragedy of the commons" sprinkled in to me.

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