Only when the transgressions aren't relevant to a victim being murdered.

A guy could be a convicted child killer, but doing absolutely nothing illegal and minding his business, and get murdered. You're not going to downplay the child murderer part. It's irrelevant to the fact he was murdered, even if it was part of the motive.

But he wasn't a child murderer and to equate that with carrying a weapon (in America of all places) is not an apt comparison at all. Nor was he murdered for carrying a weapon. He was murdered simply because he was black. So again his past history is irrelevant within the context and circumstances of his murder

It was an example, not an analogy. (Reductio ad absurdum), also don't downplay it then.

Part of the reason you got so much **** before is that your viewpoint was conflated with people like itshot, who as you can see still continue with the victim blaming even after the facts are known. I saw what you were saying, but you might want to try and draw a cleaner delineation between yourself and those types in future.

And you are a liar. Stop turning your your complete and repeated failure at comprehension into some bad thing I'm doing.

Yeah, it's yet another reason still I considered those giving the $hit as turnips, due to their persistent conflation. I already highlighted my viewpoint more times than I care to remember so am not gonna bother highlighting it yet again so have no need for a cleaner delineation as my viewpoint was very clear and other posters trolling, stupidity and false accusations aren't my problem. You saw what I was saying so I'm quite bemused that this thread's resident little clique didn't.

It was a very inapt example, sorry and nobody's "downplaying" anything as it has nothing to do with the circumstances of Mr Arbery's murder. It doesn't even bear mentioning.

Just some well-intentioned advice, bro; as they say, it's worth exactly what you paid for it

corpus,

You are being sufficiently sensitive to the context of race in the United States generally, and the South specifically. On a blank slate, it might be reckless to speculate about whether race was a factor in this killing.

But we are not writing on a blank slate. A lot of contextual factors make it pretty damn likely that race was a factor.

The 'contextual factors' reminds me of a lot of conversations that I've had about various conspiracy theories where I'm asking people to connect a few dots and they refuse to do so. In this case you guys are the (apparently correctly) conspiracy people saying racism and your naysayers are refusing to look at the bigger picture. I know how you feel.

I think you missed a couple of "not"s above, if you see this in time to edit.

Correction: "not being sufficiently sensitive"

Right.

Drawing inferences is fine. Drawing inferences in favor of spectacular, but highly improbable, conclusions (i.e., Epstein is still alive) is not the same thing as inferring that race was probably a factor in the Arbery killing. I know you think it is the same thing, but it isn't.

I think the point is that people have no problem connecting dots when it suits them or fits with their preconceived notions, and they're perfectly fine playing dumb when they don't.

To be honest, it feels like people are piling on corpus vile a bit much and at the same time you made the "dumb trolling" post I was actually thinking yeah they could take it down a notch...

I'm not going to participate in it, but you are going to be continually bashed, as I'm sure you're aware, because this is the dichotomy that is forming in this world



Pay attention to the speech in the beginning. The problem is the way you're choosing to remain neutral is viewed as enabling the toxic culture that is brewing everywhere. I know it's more complicated than that because the subtext is 22 and you're capable of modding in a different style should you choose to do so...

But I'm just saying as an observer, it will be more commonly viewed that the right thing to do is to give you **** for the way you mod. And corpus vile for the way he's posted recently. I might gripe here or there, but I'm not fully with this group. But I damn sure understand, even if I'm not quite rank and file. Times are tough, I'm not quite sure how to feel often...but the dichotomy is real

To others: It needs to be noted that 1) flawed thinking is not always indicative of a toxic person or intentionally toxic thought and 2) the heart and mind of a mob mentality is actually potentially dangerous, no matter how pure the hearts and minds are that make it up. There needs to be a braking system in place because we are fallible even if we head in the right direction. So sure, give corpus vile **** if you think he deserves it, but at some point there's just no value in multiplying the denigration by 5x. In fact, this makes some people clench tighter to the very thoughts you're trying to unravel, eliminate, or get someone to unlearn

It's that simple, it's that profound

I'm pretty sure people understand what you mean. And I made note that I may be wrong about him. The point is, not everyone who does something that we view as monumentally stupid and an unfathomable decision does so in a lucid, malicious state. Don't get so lost in the "youthful indiscretions" part. Yes, it is more serious than that. That wasn't the point. The point is people make honest mistakes all the time and to choose to bring a gun to any particular place can indeed be an honest mistake. A really ****ing stupid one, imo, but honest nonetheless

Just remember, the poster who revealed he is Black is sitting back in mild amusement, unsurprised and hopefully unbothered, for what he has seen and possibly experienced 100,000 times already. But therein lies the problem. It just keeps happening and people still go full Drew Brees on it

Teflon: I'm with you except for the Linkin Park :P

I've missed the last few days, but are there still racist apologists in this thread? Are the racist apologists going to try and out dance the fact that a Georgia Bureau Investigator testified today of Bryan saying that Mcmichael said f***** n***** after killing Arhery? Or that the GBI Agent testified that Mcmichael used racial slurs numerous times on social media and text services?

I made my position clear. Do I need to link it yet again? Your contextual factors were different races in a southern state and dob of one of the killers. I go by the data as it becomes available instead of automatic assumption. If you prefer to go by the latter then okay. That's your biz. You stick with how you assess things and I'll stick with how I do.
I sussed what you meant the first time mate, it's all good.
I personally wasn't naysaying and again made my position very clear

I know it was well intentioned and it's appreciated mate but I'm not gonna change how I reason at the behest of a bunch of lying bullying trolls.

I think the context is quite a bit more complicated than white shooter + black victim + South = guaranteed 100% racist motivation. For example, there is specific context around racial profiling as it relates to crime and fear of young black men specifically among some white people, whether conscious or unconscious, that informs people's inferences here.

In any case, most people would agree that we cannot know for sure whether the incident would have gone down differently if Arbery had been white. Anyone who claims to know the answer to that question to a 100% certainty is overplaying their hand imo. But it doesn't seem crazy to speculate on a message board that race was likely a factor because everything I know about the United States and everything I know about growing up in the South tells me that it probably was, even if I can't know for sure whether and to what degree exactly it was a factor.

What say you now that a GBI agent testified that Mcmichael said "f****** n*****" after killing Arbery? And that Mcmichael social media and texting is littered with racial slurs?

Can a racist apologist actually make a real apology. Or duck and hide. Or more ad hominem bullcrap.

He said this:

I wasn't aware of these facts, but if they are accurate, I would say it is exceedingly unlikely that race was not a factor.

From the available data at the time, one could also infer they were stupid macho gun nut types also.

In any case, most people would agree that we cannot know for sure whether the incident would have gone down differently if Arbery had been white. Anyone who claims to know the answer to that question to a 100% certainty is overplaying their hand imo. But it doesn't seem crazy to speculate on a message board that race was likely a factor because everything I know about the United States and everything I know about growing up in the South tells me that it probably was, even if I can't know for sure whether and to what degree exactly it was a factor.[/QUOTE]
But they weren't speculating they were immediately automatically flat out asserting with only the aforementioned factors to go on and promptly proceeded to shout down anyone that didn't auto assume and then accused them of defending racists and racism and a whole bunch of other falsehoods to boot. Which then bogged down the discussion re the actual topic itself.

I have no problem with those suspecting it was racially motivated- the differing races and location was why I was open minded on it being so- but to automatically assert it and use one of the killers dob was ludicrous sorry. And I gotta say some of the posters seemed downright gleeful when it emerged that it was a Hate murder just so they could say "told ya so!" it seems which I find rather creepy tbh.
But we'll leave it at that mate and move on, cheers.