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Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated)

07-12-2015 , 01:51 PM
Do you use two factor authentication?
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-12-2015 , 02:01 PM
no. I should also add, that I only play on a new desktop, which I use for poker and nothing else, so the chances of having a trojan on there or something should be relatively low. I'll also add that people can post clickable hyper-links in the chat, no idea if that could be a potential source or not as I know little about computers.
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07-12-2015 , 02:10 PM
Everyone should, especially high stakes players. With the nature of bitcoin, it's your only line of defense against a stolen password. Though if he had a bunch of player's passwords he could just empty their accounts rather than play against them.

If the player in question managed to get a trojan on a bunch of player's machines, and could see their hole cards, he would probably follow them around even to games he does not understand. And his play would look horrendous, though in hindsight justified because he could see your cards.
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07-12-2015 , 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke
They responded "as to the reason you don’t see player in question we can’t go into details but were aware of the situation and its not because he was challenged in chat... we can't share results of investigations....
we are very viligent about all forms of cheating, please rest assured......

This is extremely worrisome as well given the site basically has no rules and is anonymous so it would be very hard to be banned for anything other than maybe having 2 accounts and playing at the same time, but most of his play was heads up.

Lastly, I really hope they can divulge some info because I won't play there until I know more information. They banned him for something, but he can easily continue to play on the site since you can easily have and fund infinite accounts.
The normal reason for not revealing the results of investigations is because the sites have a duty of confidentiality with regard to their customers.

If SWC is anonymous and its users can't be identified, then I can't see any reason why they shouldn't give the results of investigations of cheating, and details of what they have done to ensure that similar methods can't be used to cheat again. Indeed, that would make their players feel a little safer against being cheated.
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07-13-2015 , 10:42 AM
Very disturbing, what usernames were involved?

I have not seen KuntyKunter since the end of May
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07-13-2015 , 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchOnDaRocks
Very disturbing, what usernames were involved?

I have not seen KuntyKunter since the end of May
I was forced to change names because of monkeys like the OP who cry foul after getting owned. I am not a cheat.
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07-13-2015 , 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh_4Q_Man
I was forced to change names because of monkeys like the OP who cry foul after getting owned. I am not a cheat.
Why did SWC tell you they had to ban you?
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-13-2015 , 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh_4Q_Man
I was forced to change names because of monkeys like the OP who cry foul after getting owned. I am not a cheat.
I've never said a word to the site about any players, Nor made any public comment about the situation until the player has been missing for a month, neither did any person i associate with, so that reason is impossible

Furthe, if that was the reason shouldn't the email form the site say we did a full investigation and found no evidence of cheating, etc. rather than state we can't go into details why you don't see him anymore but we're aware of the situation and can't comment on the investigation (why is there an investigation of just a bunch of morons complaining about being owned) etc...

Lastly, if they did allow you to change your screen name and keep your established rakeback it seems unfair you would be able to keep your rake while continuing to play people with established reads while they have none.

So in the somewhat unlink chance that you are right, the email response is the prime reason that lead to this post. However the fact that they would make you change your name for cheating accusations a month prior to myself or anyone u know mentioning it, seems unlikely.
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-14-2015 , 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCat
Why did SWC tell you they had to ban you?
I did not mean they banned me, sorry for the confusion. I meant I was "forced" to create a new account because people in chat were accusing me of being a cheat. As a result the action I was able to get was impacted negatively.
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-14-2015 , 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke
I've never said a word to the site about any players, Nor made any public comment about the situation until the player has been missing for a month, neither did any person i associate with, so that reason is impossible

Furthe, if that was the reason shouldn't the email form the site say we did a full investigation and found no evidence of cheating, etc. rather than state we can't go into details why you don't see him anymore but we're aware of the situation and can't comment on the investigation (why is there an investigation of just a bunch of morons complaining about being owned) etc...

Lastly, if they did allow you to change your screen name and keep your established rakeback it seems unfair you would be able to keep your rake while continuing to play people with established reads while they have none.

So in the somewhat unlink chance that you are right, the email response is the prime reason that lead to this post. However the fact that they would make you change your name for cheating accusations a month prior to myself or anyone u know mentioning it, seems unlikely.
Read my previous post. I was not banned but chose to create a new account, which to my knowledge is permitted at SWC. I play 2-7 for fun, perhaps my odd playing style was due to my lack of knowledge of the game back then. I'll happily play you again

Sorry for calling you a monkey btw, but SOOOO many people had accused me of being a cheat at not only 2-7 but PLO as well. Gets annoying.

Last edited by Oh_4Q_Man; 07-14-2015 at 12:53 AM.
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-14-2015 , 01:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh_4Q_Man
I did not mean they banned me, sorry for the confusion. I meant I was "forced" to create a new account because people in chat were accusing me of being a cheat. As a result the action I was able to get was impacted negatively.
If this is the case, don't you find it very odd that their email would state we are aware of the situstion (there is no situation), we can't comment, but we'll say the reason is not becuase he was challenged in the chat, which I take to mean as people calling you a Cheater in chat is expressly not the reason we don't see you there anymore. If true those are pretty different and conflicting accounts.
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-14-2015 , 01:54 AM
Could you post that entire email, please?
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-14-2015 , 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_locke
If this is the case, don't you find it very odd that their email would state we are aware of the situstion (there is no situation), we can't comment, but we'll say the reason is not becuase he was challenged in the chat, which I take to mean as people calling you a Cheater in chat is expressly not the reason we don't see you there anymore. If true those are pretty different and conflicting accounts.
I do agree that is odd. As I dont know what the email said, I can not comment on everything, but perhaps they meant "we are aware of the situation" as in so much that they had received complaints from other players and are investigating. I think you are reading it as "we are aware something is odd." FWIW I was not contacted by seals about any allegations made against me. The timing of my KK s/n not playing is not related to any complaints sent to SWC or any investigation, it is merely a coincidence. Perhaps I should go back to that account?
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-14-2015 , 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCat
The fact they won't describe why they banned the player for cheating is really suspicious. Evidence makes collusion unlikely, and all the other forms of cheating are really scary. Worse, the people who ran the original Seals With Clubs announced when they shut it down that it was because of a serious security issue but they refused to disclose it.
the "security problem" was definitely the feds raiding microns home (imo)


Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCat
3) Man in the Middle - Can't be this as if SWC client communications were insecure enough to allow it, it's pretty much impossible for them to catch someone doing it. And your opponent would have to be able to tap into your network path to SWC somehow, which is pretty hard unless they can co-locate their MiM server where SWC is and can intercept all of SWC's network traffic.

4) RNG prediction - Predicting cards dealt by reverse engineering the random number generator should be extremely hard or impossible to do with a well designed system. But assuming the player was able to do it, it would also be hard to detect as it's difficult to determine lucky play from actually knowing the cards.

obv i can't say how likely the scenarios are, but i've once read that especially the smaller rooms tend to not sign their update packages and hackers could add malware (even it's not easy to corrupt such files) w/o anybody noticing it.

i've also read about a (very old) case, where a poker rng could be predicted, b/c the provider used pseudo random numbers (not sure if any one uses them nowadays). if you could narrow all possible decks down to a few thousand and then filter this result b/c you have been dealt a 5 card hand, you prolly know the whole deck.



the mentioned 'RNG hack' itt is imo a different thing. as i understood, the hacker knew the result b/c it was sent and he decrypted/influenced it. i don't think, that swc would send all the card info to each player at the table
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07-14-2015 , 08:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NerdSuperfly
the "security problem" was definitely the feds raiding microns home (imo)
One of the old seals developers posted details of the security problem on another message board, probably not linkable here, under the name hdev_swc. If you google that name you can find the thread, and then look for post #985. Note that the incident described happened on the old Poker Mavens version of Seals.
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-14-2015 , 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM
One of the old seals developers posted details of the security problem on another message board, probably not linkable here, under the name hdev_swc. If you google that name you can find the thread, and then look for post #985. Note that the incident described happened on the old Poker Mavens version of Seals.
thx, very interesting
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07-14-2015 , 12:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh_4Q_Man
I do agree that is odd. As I dont know what the email said, I can not comment on everything, but perhaps they meant "we are aware of the situation" as in so much that they had received complaints from other players and are investigating. I think you are reading it as "we are aware something is odd." FWIW I was not contacted by seals about any allegations made against me. The timing of my KK s/n not playing is not related to any complaints sent to SWC or any investigation, it is merely a coincidence. Perhaps I should go back to that account?
Please go back and play on it. That will at least establish that SWC support is lying to all of us.
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07-14-2015 , 12:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCat
Please go back and play on it. That will at least establish that SWC support is lying to all of us.
How would that establish anything? We have neither the actual support email, which a friend of OP claimed to have received, nor confirmation that it is genuine. In fact, no where does OP actually report that support said the player was banned. Whoever thought that was reading between the lines a bit.
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-14-2015 , 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM
One of the old seals developers posted details of the security problem on another message board, probably not linkable here, under the name hdev_swc. If you google that name you can find the thread, and then look for post #985. Note that the incident described happened on the old Poker Mavens version of Seals.
Sounds like someone like the NGBC or FBI attempted to copy the site data.

Quote:
The physical server, which was set up as a hypervisor for multiple servers, had a hard fault that caused the machine to be taken down without us being notified. The root cause was said to be a failed drive, though the hardware should have been fine to have a drive hot swapped in and that did not happen. Our host replaced the drive while the machine was down, which took much longer than expected. The event logs support the theory that the drives could have been imaged during this time. The timing of the outage was also very suspect.

Unlike the password fiasco from a couple years ago, this wasn't a break in attempt to steal funds; it appears to have been an attempt to get information about the operator of the server. There is still the possibility that it was a freak timing and hardware coincidence but given everything that was happening we couldn't seriously write off the events as coincidence. The reality is that it was becoming clear that no matter where your server is hosted, it is going to be under constant attack. If not from people trying to break in to steal, then by people trying to extort money from you, and with the NGCB actions, from governments.

We always put the security of player balances first and with everything going on around us, it was getting to the point that I didn't know if we could honestly live up to that.
From reading the thread it sounds like they shut down because of the raid & the hardware fault, because they couldn't know if their system was still secure or not. This is of course the old Poker Mavens system, not what they run now.
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07-14-2015 , 05:35 PM
i have a copy of the emails but will let jon_locke or macaubound decide if they want to post it.
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-16-2015 , 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM
One of the old seals developers posted details of the security problem on another message board, probably not linkable here, under the name hdev_swc. If you google that name you can find the thread, and then look for post #985. Note that the incident described happened on the old Poker Mavens version of Seals.
security problem on Mavens was that someone had access to the server and was comprimised during micons ordeal with agents , I believe that is what the dev said on another forum. Guy that op said cheated him doesn't sound credible at all. Didn't he call down 2 hands with a pair? Playing high stakes and being a novice, doesn't make much sense.
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-16-2015 , 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeckoRiver
security problem on Mavens was that someone had access to the server and was comprimised during micons ordeal with agents , I believe that is what the dev said on another forum. Guy that op said cheated him doesn't sound credible at all. Didn't he call down 2 hands with a pair? Playing high stakes and being a novice, doesn't make much sense.
Makes perfect sense if he could see OPs cards.
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-17-2015 , 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh_4Q_Man
I was forced to change names because of monkeys like the OP who cry foul after getting owned. I am not a cheat.
I played Kunty a bunch heads up. I'm pretty sure I'm up on him and have no idea why people think he was cheating.
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-17-2015 , 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donof
I played Kunty a bunch heads up. I'm pretty sure I'm up on him and have no idea why people think he was cheating.
Because SWC said so?
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote
07-17-2015 , 05:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertCat
Because SWC said so?
Cite?
Very suspicious play on SWC (felt cheated) Quote

      
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