The only important is Stars is licended and regulated, they should remove it.
I dont know a serious business that is not audited for 5-6 years.

In fact they can use a random RNG or a software noone recognize it.

In my opinion, this thread is like Chicken Little running around screaming "The sky is falling, the sky is falling", but the next time that Stars has their RNG (or any other non-changing component) audited, they could record and document the checksum or better yet, a cryptographic hash function. It could be used as evidence in the following years that the RNG code has not been changed.

So much to worry about. So little time.

But for the record, rigging online poker by altering the RNG is like rigging a football game by altering the law of gravity. That would not be the way to do it.

ITT: Flat Earth Society

Sadly the behavior of SOme of the people in this message list. They suggest what a Band before most of your time THE KINKS said in their their great song
Living on A THIN LINE.

Jabbering heads in locked rooms I am afraid.

A complaint and a question is brought up and rumor mongers rally to cease discussion.

WeLl sAId ^^

"Dedicated Follower of Fashion"

OP,
All was said already.
In practice, third party audit will bring BUT nothing (explained many time here). Only one said it - what matters is regularly tests (they have them) from the place itself, just in case (nothing is eternal) something happen with the physical, material RNG (I suspect that they have at least two of them) for not the victims (the players) to have to report here in 2+2 that something happened with that RNG.

Even IF poker is rigged that CAN not be from the RNG - forget about it.



Are the mods in their winter sleep? Do they hibernate already:-)

P.S. Can not someone, I am sure that there are many ones far better than me, to write a sticky about the RNGs for there never to be more threads about the RNGs?

Stars dont need to audit their current RNG as long as it doesnt malfunction which would be instantly obvious.

The reason that breaking PS's RNG is impossible, yes impossible by statistical means is that their seed is truly random. The RNG uses both mouse and hardware information from random users and also a intel RNG which measures thermal electronic noise over a resistor. Unless you know how to remotely predict the truly random thermal noise generated from charge carriers (random electron motion) then sure you can break it. But if you read up you will realize that it is truly impossible from your pc at home and even if you had access to the RNG itself. Quantum physics alone prevent you from knowing anything about the system as the Heisenberg principle clearly states that the more you know about the position of the electron you know less about it's momentum. So even if you know all the indivitual position of every electron in the "system" you wouldnt be able to calculate their position after time t because you would know almost nothing of their momentum.
Needless to say, statistical means of "calculating" future seeds or current in real time are futile.

This seed is generated over and over again many times a second so since they changed their systems i would rather play on PS then any other site when it comes to RNG (actually i dont know how the other sites do it but knowing how PS does it and being a electronic engineer i'm 100%)

A+

Just read in "Laughs or Links!":

Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.




Mods - SOS:-) I can not stop reading this thread :-)

I continue reading

http://www.zee.me/blog/2009/10/376-o...-the-internet/

"The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it’s still on the list."

Thats deep........

Anybody know why Stars would not give me this information? How come they tried to duck my question for 2 weeks and 2 dozens emails?

HostAlex are you there, how come you are so secretive with this info if auditing the RNG isnt a big deal like everyone in this thread claims?

Um...any chance you just got some bad CS replies the first couple weeks, as unfortunately happens on a lot of poker sites?

I'm just not sure what you mean by "tried to duck". If that was their intent, then they were ducking you, not trying to. And if that's what they wanted, it's what they'd still be doing. I mean, is there something you did that folied their attempts to duck you, that they were finally forced to cave? If they were ducking you before, why'd they stop?

1st response after at least half a dozen attempts at an answer to when the lasr audit was...

Hello xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,

Thank you again for your email to PokerStars and for taking the time to
write back to us.

First, I want to say that we appreciate the concerns that you have and as a
fellow poker player myself who also goes through some rough moments in poker
I completely understand how you feel.

Now if you are offended by the lack of responses, then please accept my most
humble apologies. We have no intention of ignoring you. We most definitely
appreciate your loyalty and patronage to our site, and hope you will do so
for many years to come.

Having said all this, I have reviewed your email history with us and notice
that we have addressed our site integrity concerns with you on quite a
number of occasions. We have stated a lot of facts and presented to you a
different number of ways to help you better understand how the long term
game of poker truly works. After all that we have offered, there comes a
point where we feel that we can no longer respond to you with anything of
further constructive value to your questions that deal with our site
integrity.

Sending any further emails about how your pocket Aces was beaten by
deuce-seven offsuit will only result in receiving the same educational
responses time and time again from us. So what would be the point then of
having us respond at all if we have already issued multiple responses and
clearly no effective communication is being established?

As a final note and to summarize all that we have stated on the subject
surrounding site integrity - know that bad beats happen. Please accept it as
it is an integral part of poker. Writing about how much it happens to us
will not change that fact.

Again, any further emails surrounding the subject of site integrity will not
be answered. This is by no means to state that we are ignoring you or to
offend you in anyway. We will still gladly help you out with any other
questions you have regarding your account.

If there is anything else we can do for you, please let us know and we will
be glad to help you. I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

Regards,

David C
PokerStars Support Team


We have recently provided an easy to use contact method in the PokerStars
client. To take advantage of this feature go to the Help menu in the client
and select "Contact Support". Please note this feature requires you to be
logged into your account.

My response to that EMAIL:

Thank you for the reply, and I greatly appreciate your effort at a response. However, the question I had was not answered, nor was it even remotely addressed. I cant help but feel that you are intentionally ducking my question. Again, I will ask when the last time your RNG was audited by a third party organization? Thanks in advance for answering this question for me. Nowhere in this post have I complained about a bad beat or questioned the integrity of your site... I just asked a simple honest question. I will ask it again for clarity... when was the last time your RNG was audited by a third party organization? Thanks again.

AMEC04

another ducking attempt:

Hello xxxxxxxxx,
>
> Thanks for the reply and for clarifying the matter.
>
> The RnG software was audited by two independent
> companies. This may have
> been a few years ago but the software has never been
> changed. So the time
> frame involved is irrelevant.
>
> You can find details of this here:
>
> http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/rng/
>
> If there is anything else we can help you with, please
> don't hesitate to
> contact us.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael S
> PokerStars Support Team

My response:

Thank you very much, I appreciate the response. It does make me feel better to know this information. However I have a one more minor inquiry and I thank you for your patience and diligence on the matter. Exactly how long ago was the last audit? You stated that it came "a few years ago" and that it is "irrelevant". I'm not exactly sure exactly how many years is a few because I personally find that information very relevant. Thanks again,
AMEC04

Is that in reply to me, or did you just decide to randomly post an email they sent you?

One that, I might add, doesn't portray you in the best light. How many of your 20 emails were whining bad beat stories?

Admission and excuse as to why my question was not important. "if it wasnt inportant then why didnt u just admit it in the first place?)

Hello xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,

Thank you for your email. The last official audit on
the RNG was in 2003 although thousands of players
continue to audit it on a regular basis utilizing hand
histories and analysis programs. Please understand
that further audits on a random number generator are
not necessarily unless evidence arises that it has
somehow stopped performing as expected; such evidence
has not surfaced in regards to our RNG.

I hope that helps answer your question. Please let us
know if there is anything else we can do for you.

Regards,

Larry
PokerStars Support Team

Didn't you post these before? Why do you think anyone wants to see endless posts of emails you received from Stars?

zero of them... every one of my orignal 6 emails went unanswered and was polite and courtious in all of them.

they went something like this:

"I would like to know when the last time your RNG was audited by a third party organization. Thanks in advance, AMEC04.

u asked abotu their attempts to duck so I posted the appropriate emails (again bc I thought u missed them)

???