ONCE AGAIN - their system doesn't work any different than a regular RNG. I've PLAYED it. Odds still calculate the same as other online rooms, I still get plenty of bad beats (and give them too) with REAL LIVE shuffled decks (which aren't that random, an RNG is better).

No matter how you slice it - to seed the matrix, you need a form of RNG. When the deck is cut, you need a form of RNG to pick out the implied deck. The seeding of the cards, and the choosing of the deck played - is where the real shuffle fails, and an RNG algorithm is employed (otherwise, there is no true randomness over a multiplied instance of 52 cards per deck).

Ugh, if this helps the Germans out, then so be it. But its no different than any other poker site - as in the cards dealt out for a given hand.

Legislators aren't keeping online poker from being completely legal in the US because of the RNG. Its more about sin and getting their cut.

Are you playing for cash yet? Or is it still just play money? How many hands have you logged so far? Or does that even matter because no tracking software works there?

I appreciate English is not your primary language and at times that does create some difficulty in understanding your meaning (ie: hole vs whole which are both words and both can apply to poker but mean different things).


The reality is none of these rooms are rigged in the silly ways riggies want to believe them to be rigged. That's just paranoid conspiracy fantasy akin to 9/11 truthers who want to believe the US government killed thousands of it's citizens.

Tons of crime exists in the online poker industry, but the crimes are those that make sense - fraud, collusion, bots etc. Small rooms go under all the time stealing their players money. Larger rooms catch colluders all the time (tons of accounts among the Omaha DoN regs on Stars have recently "vanished").

Super programmed RnGs with all the people keeping it a secret till their death is fantasy, and Real Deal's deal will be no more or less rigged unless their weird way of dealing is actually expolitable which would be a problem.

Your weird belief that if it is monitored by tax collectors it is ok is LOLtastic. People come up with conspiracies all the time about tax agencies.

Here

http://www.nmcservices.net/irsconspiracy.html

Ooh, spooky IRS conspiracies. Glad they are not regulating online poker...


All you are is a degenrate gambler who pretends to know math who is clinging to the belief that finally a room will exist that you may win at because it is"fair" even though you losing has nothing to do with fairness, and you know what - good job Real Deal in creating a marketing hook that appeals to guys like you.

As I have said a few times, they will have a much harder time keeping you guys as customers once you start noticing patterns there as well and more and more people are in on it to keep you from winning yet again.

All the best.

Gene,

I'd like to add my support to these questions. Please address these concerns directly.

Sorry, can happen! Especially if I try to write English as fast as German. I know the difference of these words and don’t use translator software. Nevertheless, the risk to make mistakes is pretty high and my English style is certainly somewhat clumsy.

I don’t know the reality in internet pokerrooms because I have no insight view and can consider them only like well-painted off-shore black boxes. When I started playing poker at the beginning of 2007 I saw the jerry-built corporate structure of PP, the background of Ruth Parasol and some other negative internet stories. Furthermore, a German guy – well known to me as a fraudster from former times - who owned suddenly an internet casino and a pokersite. So, I was already warned when I started and found never to much light in this business. Instead endless negative stories. I said in the German forum already this: "What else will still happen, so that I can’t stop my paranoid way of thinking".

As I said, there is one big difference. Testing RNGs requires big databases and I was first guy here in this forum who realized a flashy error in the Pokerroom RNGs after approx. 100 Mio. Pokerhands. As u know Pokerroom was more or less the only pokersite which published statistics for all dealt pokerhands. I think nobody will find similar errors in the Real Deal’s deal, once this system works correct and is audited by the IoM authorities.

German poker pros have currently a big tax problem, because of the fact that the fiscal authorities struggle through the Hendon Mob winner listings. We have a very long thread about this problem in our forum. Here it is (I assume more than 50% was written by me). We know that we have only a chance to get poker legalized if the German fiscus is able to collect taxes directly from the source, hopefully as a fixed percentage from rake only. No other solution makes sense.


Thank u for your assessment. U are invided to learn German and read all my posts in the German forum than u might know more about my fascinating personality. (Perhaps I should still write the script for a full-length movie)

All I want to see from any pokersite is a current attest that their game is fair and true random (and certainly also some other information - don't like to play on a site which is owned by the maffia or another well-known gangster). I think this is a reasonable demand and I justified this already very often with a shift of the burden of proof. Here is one example of my reasoning.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=272

FYI, webcast tomorrow with Gene Gioia Tuesday at 8pm GMT on the realdealpoker.com site.

Your English is pretty good, I was just mentioning that at times it can create a bit of confusion. At least you don't confuse loose and lose.


This is routine paranoia.



You found proof of a site being rigged? Flashy proof? How about sharing it and letting the real stats guys (who are not roulette degens) look it over. You can be the hero of riggies everywhere.



That's a country specific taxation issue which has nothing to do with this topic. Not sure how Real Deal will help with your tax troubles but feel free to email them and ask.



We have plenty of people who believe they know lots of things but never prove anything that speak English as well.



Not sure what to suggest. Write the sites and ask if they are run by the mafia. Those that say yes do not play at. Would not be the only paranoid email they get, and the replies would be entertaining.

All the best.

According to my view this is an example of not true random RNGs! I have never said rigged!
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/25...ms-rng-340623/

Why should I do that? I don't play or risk any money if they don't voluntarily provide what I want to see. And I have no chance to sue them when I get wrong information because the place of jurisdication is not in Germany. Under German jurisdiction I wouldn't have much problems to sue PS for any loss if they can't give evidence for a fair poker game. Therefore, a similiar solution like in case of Real Deal could protect them legally.

Not to believe that I'm the guy who gives PS such legal advice and tips (or they are rigged anyway and fear everything).

If you read the thread you will see that the stats guys took a while debating about which tests are valid and how they need to be applied (I will not pretend I followed all the details), and in the end one of the biggest stats freaks said

So what we have are stats guys talking about boring stats and doing a lot of tests and theory discussions and concluding that the RnG is working fine.

On the other hand we have you with your beliefs based on , umm, your beliefs. Whenever you stated your beliefs the stats guys usually said something like "true, but irrelevant" or "not true."

Post 47 in that thread is what happens when a riggie and his theories meet up a stats guy.

In those cases - I'll take the stats guys.

If you have any flashy proof that is actually confirmed by the stats guys please feel free to link that.






This is just basic paranoia.


If Real Deal appeals to you then play there since as a riggie you are their target market. We will see how ong you and other riggies stay loyal before all of these same paranoid beliefs start forming on Real Deal as well. Good luck to Real Deal when that happens...

LOL

Believe me I don't need stats guys if I get all information I need. I think there was some sort of a greenhorn pokerroom manager who provided wrong data to the public. This example shows that no rigtard in this forum will hardly ever be in a position to prove anything. And if the pookerroom manager would have the same experience and education than I have no stats guy in this forum would ever be in a position to proof the biggest rake maximization fraud. Therefore all this discussion is some sort of BS.

I play were I want to play also on sites with a weird RNG system.

If u don't want to play on Real Deal then u are some sort of a rigtard because u don't trust card shuffling machines combined with a weird deckmatrix system.

Yes. I believe that the rigtards will lose at RDP also.

At that monumental turning point in their lives they will have to chose from the standard explanations, plus they will have one additional option.

[ ] There are big leaks in their game
[ ] Every site that they have ever played on is rigged
[ ] One or more of their opponents has deciphered the matrix, and sometimes knows what card will be dealt next, based on the cards simultaneously dealt at other tables

"There is no way he should have called my all in, unless he knew that a club was coming next"

"He called for Qh on the river, and he got it"

"He doesn't know every card that is coming, but sometimes he does"

"He was sitting on 20 tables, but he was only raising on mine"

He took the red pill.

It is statistically likely that if enough people play at RD a few will run very hot over a significant number of hands.

These few will naturally see this as evidence that were poker gods all along and that now, at last, there is a fair site that allows thier hold 'em genius to shine through.

These people will, inevitably, become evangalists for RD.

Of course, that majority will neutral or bad and these people will be "The New Rigtards of the Church of RealDeal".

We live in interesting times.

I'm for the blue pill (and a previous poster in another thread a long long time ago called me - The Architect)

It's ok. Most of the stats guys still fall for trying to help/educate guys like you over and over when this is pretty much the matra riggies live by.

I think it was a Lizard Person


Riggies are not into proving anything. They like BELIEVING, not proving. All your posts are beliefs. None have proof.



Weird RnGs are ok. Mafia is bad.

Suggest it to Real Deal as a marketing slogan.



Personally I would not play there because it is a tiny room and until they show they can last in the market I will stick with the larger rooms which offer better game selection, account security (RSA token), and solid customer support.

If Real Deal's deal is flawed the stats guys will discover it. Until then I assume it will not be rigged no matter what way they deal it. Riggies will see patterns in their deal just as they will in any deal.

It seems to me there are several things they can do:

1) Publish and clearly detail the system they use for shuffling cards, in a manner that allows players to conceptually reproduce the system.

2) Provide a copy of every hand history played by the player on demand so that they can conduct their own analysis.

3) Arrange for and publish the result of reputable auditors to analyse their systems.

4) Operate in a credible regulatory jurisdiction.

Most importantly, they should have the ability to review the output of the system.

Secondly, they should have the ability to review the processes of the system.

FWIW, in addition to your query about regulators and legislators, I'd also add in "players" since I think they're more important stakeholders.

By analysing the output.
Obviously not, because there's no involvement of radio in the generation of random cards at PokerStars, or, afaik, any other major online poker operator.
The ways to secure a fair and true random game are outlined above.
You can determine for yourself whether they comply with 1, 2, 3 & 4 above.
This is simply false. Applying the same four criteria from above to PokerStars:

1) Yes - http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/room/features/security/

2) Yes.

3) Yes - http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/rng/

4) Yes - http://www.pokerstars.com/iom/
I trust that this will cure you of being a conspiracy theorist.

WTF? Then why do you say this:

And I enjoyed this:

Post #26 != first.

BTW, it's pretty dumb to ask rhetorical questions and get the answers wrong.

ROFL Supa-Pwnd

Wait, what?

Are you aware that no one ITT has stated (at least not seriously) that they think that Real Deal is likely to be rigged? Most of us are simply arguing that there is nothing in Real Deal's methodology that makes it any less likely to be rigged than any other site.

Output, output, output. In the end, that's all that matters.

our reptilian overlords' power rests in the fact it is not possible to prove.

they call it the Kaiser Soze Complex.

@Bobo Fett

One Mod said:
I answered:
The original wording in German was:
It is much harder for me to translate this into English than u might believe. DUCY?


But I have something serious to say:

1) Please don't mix my qoutes arround if u have no clue what I said.

2) I was cited in the first post. This means I said it already before the thread started.

3) Your thinking is flawed. If u can't understand my opinon, then read the last pages ITT again.



@Josem

I know u are a very bright boy here in this forum. I learnt a lot from u during these AP/UP cases and I appreciate your opinon. However, I thought u also learnt a lot, i.a. that u had much luck during the AP case. And therefore I say u what. The value of this document is below zero for me. It says what is says - not more.

I hope u understand me now and forget "BTW, it's pretty dumb ..."

If not, I don't want to explain this here. The discussion would be offtopic ITT and I'm no PS hater. I like PS because of other reasons, not because of such weak documents of their fairness and also not because of the used RNGs.

In B4 annoying BAN!!!

You know, earlier you made some kind of smartass reply saying "because I am right" or something to that effect. Yet you demonstrate post after post that you couldn't be more wrong.

If you want to be paranoid that's fine, it's your right. But don't dump your paranoia on us and try to discredit the very real efforts sites take to ensure a fair game. You are provided with detailed information from somebody like Josem, links to audits by reputable organizations, and even have the output at your disposal for any testing you may want to do. YOU choose to ignore all of it and claim that an unproven site not even on its feet can do better.

You know what? That's a bunch of bullcrap. You've brought nothing of substance to this discussion and I don't see that changing.