http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Scr...82330791802318

like it!

I just sent an email to feedback@fulltiltpoker.com suggesting they add DoN's and I suggest any one else who is upset by this decision to do the same.

Here's a template if anyone wants to use it;

Hello,

With Stars' recent announcement that they will no longer be offering Double or Nothing SNG's after February 15th, has Full Tilt considered adding them to their SNG rotation? I think it would be an excellent business move at this moment, as many regulars would undoubtedly come over from Stars, including myself. I play approximately 4000 of these every month, and assuming rake was not worse (Stars' was 4%) I would immediately move all of my action back to Tilt.

I really hope this is at least being considered. It would mean a lot to the many DON grinders that would no doubt be very appreciative of such an addition.

Thanks,

It must be brutal for DON grinders who play for a living. I'm glad I moved to regular SNG's about a year ago. (Maybe it's time to do the same.)

playing dons on tilt is bad idea 16 tables CAP? 27%-30% rakeback? no way.

Extremely well said, I just started playing DON's and the stategy plays well for my style and has been profitable in the short term. These are two diffferent games... period.

FYI and sort of related topost

Folding Aces pre-flop is a good strategy, especially with the "variane of the cards" Why do I say this? Because twice, I was second in chips in a 50 DON with aces and both times I was against big stack playing Hero,with small stacks all around... No need to say what happened? The stategy of DON is to make top 5, the strategy of folding aces preflop is a good one and is not collusion. In the "other games"this would be moronic, thus proving 100% that these are two differnt games.Poker Stars is insulting everyone's inteligence saying it is an improved game..this should not be marketed as a replacement, just a new game period.

The salt on the wound is the increased rake. I swore I wouldn't play again at Full Tilt, due to their lack of customer service(try getting an email answered, at least Poker Stars acknowledges Collusion), but would go back if they offered DON'sng

Is there anything else that can be done besides walking away or playing a different game called 50 50? Does Poker Stars respond to forums like this without sending out their well written form letter?

Good luck at the tables,Just not against me

Paul

where go reg grinder after this?

I gonna jump out from the window after 15february..

I echo the sentiments of others in this thread applauding this change.

Unfortunately, given the fact that I and tens of thousands of others can no longer add money to our PokerStars accounts, it's a moot point.

But yeah, good change, glad to see it.

I'd also like to know where all the other reg DON grinders will go after the 15th?

Also, you might have to make a decison at some point that's kind of like a split-pot game. For example, if I have a tiny stack, do I try to get something (a min cash, with not enough chips to get paid for my stack) or do I take some risks to get both placing and stack-size money?

Many will go to other sites offering DoNs and continue to play them
Many will migrate to Fifty50s
Some will move to standard SNGs
Some will take up a different form of poker (cash games, multis, etc.)

As for myself, I could fall into any of those categories, I'm not really sure what I want to do and will spend the next couple months trying out many different formats and sites.

I used to stalk that guy. I have tracked some of his stats at > 85 (one was 98, over more than 2K hands) that made him extremely easy to exploit.

It will need to take to time to learn a new game format. Just think about how to upgrade your cash game/sng/mtt ability before (reading many books, coaching, Cardrunner.. etc).

Now have to restart again, or get a job

There is a notoriously difficult 10K race that is called the Run Through Hell. It is held in Hell, Michigan, USA.

Hello Fossilkid! We played together on lots of 54$ tables last year.

I am so unhappy because of this decision.
Don't know what to do now. None of these options seem to fit me.

To the welfare office obv

Yeah the big issue is DoN's are really unique, and the skills you learn playing them don't transfer well to other formats. In a nutshell we have to relearn poker in a weeks time.

This

HEY GUYS. check this out....sent this letter to support@pokerstars.com. If you guys also have an opinion you should definitely send it to them. Let's get these DON'S to stay!!!!


Hi,

I have played on Pokerstars for almost three years (almost every day during those three years) with the past two years being devoted mostly to double or nothing sit and goes. I must say, I am extremely upset over what you guys are doing with the double or nothings. I spent many hours at low stakes playing and studying the structure and have become a consistent winner (although at low stakes) and planned on taking my skill to the next level by multi-tabling the non-turbo don's starting later this month when i had the time to start. I purposely left $2700 in my account so that I may have 125 buy-ins for the 20 + 1.60 don's. I am a regular 2+2 poster and am very familiar with the chinese collusion ring but that was over a year ago and frankly, i'd rather have the possibility of collusion present then to not have don's at all. Although Don's are sensitive to collusion, both ring games and other forms of sng's can also be manipulated. When you play online, you put your faith in the security team and your fellow players. I always loved pokerstars in the past, but i have to say, this decision is herrendous.

Fifty/50's are nothing at all like don's. It is a completely different structure. To say that they are similar and that all the don regulars should transition to fifty'50's easily is simply not true. The structure of fifty/50's is terrible. The fact that you are playing to survive the top 5 is completely contradictory to the fact that you get paid based on final chip position. They are two different games with two distinct styles and should not be combined. It would be like trying to play a full ring style in a heads up sng or vice versa. There is a lot of difficulty in decision making and overall it will lead to complete chaos for a multi-tabler like myself. I tried the fity/50s a few weeks ago and realized how awful the structure was so stopped then thanked god for the existence of Don's. Once my personal schedule cleared up this month, I could not wait to get back to the don's after a long break from them. These Fifty/50's will never catch on the way don's did. Pokerstars, as far as I'm concerned, is digging their own grave with this particular matter by sending regulars of this structure off the site and onto other sites.

Anyone who played don's on a regular basis will be smart enough to realize the HUGE differences in the structure and will not multi them anywhere close to the way they did don's. It's one thing to keep the don's while also keeping fifty/50s but getting rid of don's is getting rid of profit for your site. These fifty/50's have a hidden rake not to mention less vpp point potential. For example, in a $5.30 50/50, 5 players will get $5 each then .16 x 150 (15,000 chips/100) = $24 therefore there is one dollar unaccounted for and therefore unrewarded hence the hidden rake (that dollar goes back to pokerstars making the true entry fee .40 NOT .30 for a 5 dollar sng). Now, i fully believe anyone should have the chance to play any structure that exists on stars even if i believe it is a poor structure. I DON'T think, however, you should be punishing the don lovers by eliminating the game altogether. Pokerstars is dreaming if they think they will just be able to reroute all don traffic to 50/50's. Over time, that simply will not happen. In the beginning there may be heavy traffic from don regulars but they will soon realize the vast differences and may end up leaving for another site altogether.

PLEASE RECONSIDER this decision. It is not too late to make a lot of your players very grateful by keeping these sngs. If you go on any forum such as 2 + 2 you will see how many people you will be losing due to this decision. You are handing off business to another site. I would appreciate you forwarding this to the department that considers these decisions. Thank you very much for taking the time to read my thoughts. I realize it took time to read this long letter.

well written sean, but i doubt there's any hope. If pokerstars informed us ahead of time, AND gave us a reason for removing/replacing the DONS than i would have had some hope that through logic debate we could convince ps staff that its a bad move. but they didnt give a chance and caught us all by suprise, wp ps

tyty. Actually, i think i write well and we may have a chance. i think i am the reason for the sngs you're registered in showing up in red. i sent them a long letter regarding the fact that you could not see what sngs u were registered in (unlike cash games where u could) so when multi-tabling u would often click to register in one u already were and that wasted a lot of time. The day after i sent them the letter (a few months ago) the sngs lobby showed your tourneys in red and italics. i have the date of my letter and their reply to prove it. Either they listened to my opinion or i have some sort of e.s.p. and wrote the letter the day before they were amking the change. I think it was my letter though cause in the reply thay thanked me for my suggestion but said there weren;t immediate plans however they would forward it to the ppl inm charge of the software. low and behold, next day it was changed. There is ALWAYS hope. And if there isn't hope with this then i have two words for stars...good game. (c ya). hopefully tilt will be wise enough to pick up their don business by finally introducing them to their site.

u rite verri well! i hope they lisse to u

I'm pretty sure that every penny of the prize pool goes to players. They have a rounding algorithm and the figures in the lobby are approximate.

IM PRETTY SURE UR WRONG. I'M NOT CERTAIN, BUT I BELIEVE IT GOES BY EVERY 100 CHIPS. THEREFORE, IF U HAVE LET'S SAY A 1542 END STACK YOU'RE GETTING 15 TIMES X CENTS AND NOT 15.42. I COULD BE WRONG.

You're wrong.

See this post:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...3&postcount=61