Hi guys,

so in the early morning of the 8. of October I won a 30k Package for the 25k Highroller at the Bahamas in January. As you can imagine I went to bed pretty happy.
When I woke up i see that my Pokerstars account has been "closed pending the result of a review".

Then i got this email:

"Hello YYYYY,

After a recent review of your account, we have started a more detailed assessment of your account activity and related accounts. Your account has been closed pending the result of this review.

Evidence has come to our attention suggesting that accounts may have been accessed by players other than their registered owners. In order to collect your feedback, we would like to ask you to please explain your relationship to the accounts mentioned below:

'XXXX'

Giving specific details will allow better understanding of your relationship, and help to resolve this issue.

In addition, please answer the following questions:

- Have the previously listed accounts been accessed by someone other than their registered owner?

- Have you ever accessed or played on a Stars Account other than your own? If so, please provide details.

- Have you allowed someone else to use your account? If so, please provide details.

- Do you have any information that you would like us to take into account?

Please be aware that our records are precise, and an explanation which does not match our data or any attempt to conceal the situation will negatively impact the assessment of your case. If no response is received within 48 hours, we will make a decision regarding this issue and your account status without your input.

Thank you for your cooperation."
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Answered by my explanation:

"Hello Soubir,

"XXXX" is my brothers (XXXXX XXXXX) Pokerstars Account.
We both live in our parents’ home, meaning we have the same internet provider and the same IP adress.
Let me know if you need any documents proving residence from me or my brother.

Regarding your questions:

- Have the previously listed accounts been accessed by someone other than their registered owner? - No.
- Have you ever accessed or played on a Stars Account other than your own? If so, please provide details. - No.
- Have you allowed someone else to use your account? If so, please provide details. - No.
- Do you have any information that you would like us to take into account?
I play poker for a living (mainly live like EPTs, WSOP, live Cashgame and Pokerstars.ES).
I would never risk my sole source of income by letting anybody else play on my account.

I allowed my brother to use my PC to play some Spins on his Pokerstars Account, because it has a Pokertracker and Starshelper set up. That does comply with TOS as far as I know.

I hope that helps to clear this up.

best regards"

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Just to get the standardized answer completely ignoring anything I just wrote:

"Hello YYYY,
Thank you for your response.
In our request for explanation sent to you on 10/08/2018, we clearly stated that our records are precise and asked you to cooperate with our investigation by stating the facts. We also warned you that an explanation which does not match our data or any attempt to conceal the situation may result in account restrictions.
Unfortunately, the explanation provided by you does not match our records as the evidence we have suggests that account "XXXX" was accessed by "YYYYYYY" recently.
In further considering this matter, we would like to give you one final opportunity to cooperate and state the reasons behind your motivation to using an account other than your own. If you cooperate, it will help effect a speedy resolution to the matter, else the situation may be subjected to more study by Senior Investigators so as to ensure an equitable solution.
We look forward to your response."
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I have to say it feels amazing to be threatened in every single mail, after being a customer for almost 10 years, having never had any security problems or allegations. Then just hours after a bink I get that....

The funniest thing is that the whole thing is about my brother playing exactly 134 SEVEN $ spins on my PC. Which seemed to be no problem at all (happened ~2 weeks ago) until I cashed something big.
In addition, which reason would I have to suddenly play less than 150 MICROS on another Account.

No matter the outcome of this ****show, I just want the public to know how Pokerstars treats its customers these days.

Also not sure what my next steps are, I basicly said everything in my first answer they ignored...

They might still make a favourable final decision in your case. After posting this thread, you're likely to have a senior staff member review the situation if they can identify your account.

That said, your next steps....

-In the first instance, if you are unhappy with their initial decision, contact them directly, and let them know why.
-If, after directly explaining your point of view, you continue to have a dispute, ask for the issue to be escalated for re-review.
-Some companies, such as the Stars Group (owner of PokerStars etc.) employ a player advocate. You can ask for your issue to be escalated for review by that staff member of theirs.
-Many legitimate gaming sites operate under license from Governments where their servers are located. If you continue to be unhappy, you can approach the regulator with your concerns. You can obtain the contact details either by searching on the internet, or by asking the gaming site to give them to you.
-If this is not an option, or does not satisfactorily resolve your concern, you may be able to consider taking legal action. Please consult a professional legal adviser for further assistance with this.

Why didn't you just install pt on your brothers pc? After being a pro for ten years you msut know you can use pt on two different pcs. And you can't use sh with two different starsaccounts on one pc imo because the license is linked to your alias. Lesson learned never ever let anyone else use your pc accessing another stars account. Even it seems that they are saying you accessed your brothers account am I right?

And it's pretty common that after big scores stars checks accounts through. It's wery easy to open several accounts and they don't really pay too much attention to that untill you try cashing out. Or if they suspect you let someone else play and bink with your account. Big moneys brings more attention obv.

I already have PT installed on 2 machines (my laptop too ofc), and I didnt think it would be a problem since if he plays on his pc he still has the same IP anyway. Also i wasnt a pro for 10years i just played on stars for that long...

IF* the OP is innocent, then he deserves no blame for being wrongly accused. Blaming the victim of a wrongful accusation is nonsensical and immoral.



*I can't emphasise the "IF" enough.

This would make sense if they accused me of somebody playing in my account (which I assumed at first). But all this is actually about a few micros on my brothers account which makes even less sense.

I was railing a friend in that satty, so I'm interested to see how this pans out.
FWIW, my gut feeling is that based on the information in this thread you haven't done anything wrong, and once a supervisor looks at the reports, you'll be fine.
You just have to be patient and try not to get angry while they confirm a few details.

I hope you are right and we resolve this issue fast to get back to celebrating.

I will keep this thread updated anyway, maybe it turns out to be helpful for anybody later on.

Agree that in this case it doesn't make much sense. Sounds more like hey this guy broke the tos we don't have to pay the package.

A friend sent me the link to this... This is hard to read. This sounds all to familiar with the practices that STARS has been implementing. Someone has success on their site and they look to confiscate the funds in any way possible.

What I'm reading is that a long term customer is being talked to like a criminal by the police, not a long time customer. They instantly assume his guilt for something that frankly makes no sense. Why would this guy play micro stakes on his brothers account in the first place. There is no advantage he would gain by making this decision, if anything he is risking his account with no reward. I can't even fathom how this could benefit him or his brother, what he says makes perfect sense. Even sadder is they respond by ignoring his response and again assuming and treating him like a criminal not a customer.

I am clearly speculating but given what I read above, I would assume there is close to 0% chance he violated TOS. The motivation is not there he gains nothing only risks his account which he uses to make a living. The stakes were micros which based on how he talks about it seems as though he plays higher regularly.

I'm at a loss for words STARS, one longtime customer as well as a new customer who played low stakes for fun are being alienated as we speak. If this gets cleared up as I would assume it will given how weak this case is, you will leave the longterm customer who just won a dream package who should love STARS right now with a very bad taste in his mouth. Also loud and clear message to the new player that he is not respected or needed. How many people start playing poker these days, not many, lets not alienate the ones who are interested in trying it out.

STARS security in some ways is the best, they do a very good job with keeping out bots etc and this is appreciated, I would ask that they tread carefully when accusing customers of breach of TOS and threatening to ban their accounts unless they have solid evidence. If they want to investigate something do it in a respectful manner that doesn't assume guilt.

Standard for Amaya gaming to treat there customers...

to a nice lunch!

Not everyone is Baazov brothers, cokerstars.

This guy played starslive events all over the world, as recent as this year. Totally plausible that he reverted to 120 $7 spins from his brother's account (for like, better rb ?).
He does not want to do the following he obviously wanted to sat in and play PSPC (even with hiked up room, and Travel Expenses actually being-resort$ waiting on your tab) (contrary to what Stars rep assured me in person at their event few months ago-''It's cash to your PS account!'') but
-If they drag this ''investigation'' for longer I think he could like claim that they ruined his travel plans/airfare etc and in a good system (Austria) demand 30k, in cash.

That train long departed for you PS but may i suggest that you in your right mind, communicate in just a tad more decent humanely honest manner to a Case like this which for some reason you created, and don't even think about snatching those '30k' from that cash satellite, powder will drop in prices around NY.

Win or lose please give an update. Failure to do so would imply that Pstars has given your package to you under the condition that you don't discuss it publicly. Best of luck and it seems like your innocent as they didn't tie other accounts to you just your brothers.

I will keep this thread updated for sure. Hopefully this whole mess is dealt with soon.

I just wrote my reply to their last e-mail:
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Hello Soubir,
As already explained in my last response, the account “XXXX” was accessed by my brother on my PC. Please explain how this is in any way against the Terms of Service, otherwise I would like to get back to work, as I have already missed multiple tournaments I wanted to play.
Also, take a closer look at my last statement where I explained everything in detail. I never accessed this or any other account except my own.
What reason would I have to play on my brother’s account to play micros and stop after less than 150 games? There was no deposit bonus used and being on another account brings no advantage in such a huge player pool where you never see the same player again anyway. Not to speak of the insanely low monetary rewards.
I would appreciate if a supervisor could take a closer look into this case, and solve it as fast as possible. I hope we can clear up this misunderstanding so that I can continue with booking my travel arrangements to the PSPC, which are getting more expensive by the day.
Lastly, as a customer for almost 10 years I would expect being treated in a more humane fashion. I still do not know what I did wrong and do not like to be threatened in every single e-mail.
Regards,

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The insane part is that this is about my borthers account beeing supposedly multiused, so why do I get investigated instead of him? He got a really nice and non-threatening e-mail, while I get the "proofe you didnt do it, but we know you did" threat. That totally has nothing to do with the fact that my account has 40 times the amount of money on it......

Let's see if the supervisor sees the ridiculousness of this investigation.

Hey, hopefully it works out. Keep us updated.

Was your and/or your brother accounts verified before this or this is first time they ask anything about 2 accounts from same hausehold?

Hopefully it will get sorted out soon.

It may be of some comfort to OP that the fraud detection AI can cause even "celebrity" accounts to get frozen. Tonkaa was playing the other day and his battery ran out, so he borrowed his friend's tablet to finish playing a tourney. Cashing for a decent amount triggered the anti-fraud bots to freeze his account, and he was automatically sent an accusatory email.


I understand that his account has been opened again after his explanation was accepted. Maybe yours will be too once a human has looked at all the details.

My account has been verified for like 9 years and my brother verified his account right before he deposited. Because I already knew he will have to do it anyway once he wants to withdraw. Now his account is closed anyway

They never asked about the same IP thing so I thought they figured it out, same IP / same last name / same adress. Not that hard to do.

Looks like they might have overtuned their Game Integrity systems abit, I hope you are right that a human figures out how nonsensical this investigation is.

This is quite hilarious because at the same time there is a post in nvg stars hacked thread where some hacker managed to cashout the whole balance using a different neteller account. It's ok to access and dump your whole balance from different ips and countries but situations like this closes your account immediately.

This is outstandingly good! This is what all poker sites should do - they detect something suspicious, and contact the accused to understand whether it was someone cheating, or something else.

Here's two comments;

1. Your defence shouldn't be "why would I do X?" it should be "I didn't do X".
For reference:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl...n-theyre-lying

2. You seem to know a lot of details about your brothers play and emails. Exactly when he played, what he played, what PS emailed to him, etc. You realise how this looks?

I wish you the best, but advise you - seriously - to be 100% truthful with them.

Thanks for the first tip, too late for that now obviously.

2. Ofcourse i looked into everything once I got the first e-mail. I have all the games etc from him using my pokertracker. And ofcourse i know what they mail him, he is literally living next door. This just looks like we live together.

Not saying the OP did anything wrong but anybody playing online poker as a pro should never never never let anyone else near their computer...not your brother, not your wife, not even Jesus Christ or the Virgin Mary ffs. We all know that the first thing these poker sites do to winning players is try very hard to find a way to steal your money from you as soon as you try to cash out. Don't give them a reason!

UPDATE:

Seems like this time a actual human is gonna take a look.
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Thank you for contacting us.

We have forwarded your query to the specialist responsible for handling this matter. You will receive a reply as soon as possible.

Your patience is highly appreciated.

Regards,

Bret W
Stars Game Integrity

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I agree completely on that. As annoying as it must be to have your account frozen suddenly, I think it's great that Stars uses tools that lock down an account where suspicious activity is detected. The occasional 'false positive' is, imo, a price worth paying for preventing fraud/collusion/multi-accounting.

But, as Kossu pointed out, it would be nice if similar methods were used to prevent hackers on different PCs in different locations from cashing out someone's funds. If Stars has the tools to auto-detect an "abnormal" tournament win, one would think they also have the tools to detect an "abnormal" withdrawal request.