Just to follow up on that quickly (and hope to not derail this thread), I'm happy to participate in any thread about FTP. The current "FTP Software Improvement" thread in this forum doesn't get many posts, but I do somewhat actively post in the MTTc FTP thread, for example.

For sure send me a PM if there are other threads you'd like me to pop over and participate in.

Personally I've found the rep electing not much more than a popularity contest, at least at the start, but due to the general fizzling out of excitement over trips things have become more grounded, which is probably why you were able to attend at all. It would have been nice to see a PLO rep attend since the very start.

I'm not much aware about the MTT side of things... but really..does it need a trip to wonka to accomplish tourney format changes?

I know it's hard to come back to this after having stared deeply into Isai's eyes after he flew you to his factory and fed you special Stars pizza, hookers and blow for 3 nights in a row, but once you get back your rep duties (beside a report) should be over and you shouldn't have to argue anything on Star's behalf, it makes everyone else feel like you're not as much on our side as before.

Let them give us reasons themselves why meetings should continue when the general vibe is that they're no longer productive.

Seriously? Always nice to have such an adult conversation with mutual respect.

I'm arguing for the continuation of these meetings because that's what I feel is best for this community. It's very unfortunate if that makes anyone feel I'm no longer "on our side".

look at his location, dont take his opinion too seriously

It's a running joke don't take it personally... sigh

Fair enough, but I must warn y'all that my sense of humor is non-existent given the current tone of the conversation.

I could understand some of the tedious and idiotic overreactions in this thread if something that had been promised had not been delivered upon. That's not the case, however, stars call these meetings to get opinions on their plans and invite suggestions on how to do things better, if they think the suggestion isn't better for the games and/or their bottom line then of course they are going to say no.

First and foremost they are a business and their sole interest is in making money.

The repetitive calls for rake reductions and the outright abuse when it doesn't happen is pretty ****ing pathetic in my opinion. You know it isn't going to happen.

Good job and thank you GGRJ!

The reason why I personally have the impression (and I might obviously be terrible wrong with this, and I'm only respectfully speaking for myself here, but because of NDA we'll probably never fully know) the bigger decisions after the meetings are largely pre-determined is because of the past meetings and their outcomes.

I have a feeling that the PLO June 2013 meeting was organized to introduce the new rake model to reps, have them say "good times" and roll it out, as I doubt the meeting feedback/criticism was taken into account since the change was announced 36 hours (or less) after the meeting was over:

(Nowadays it takes weeks to get a simple meeting report published.)

Whether or not this change was due to the meetings or 2p2 feedback (Petition to Pokerstars to reduce the PLO cash game rake) remains unclear. Actually it doesn't really even matter. Either way, points go to Pokerstars for listening to feedback and acting on it in this case.

Other big changes, such as raising minimum buy-in (regarding possible minimum buy-in changes at Pokerstars PLO standard cash tables) were done without any meeting, solely (as far as I know) based on the 2p2 thread.

The PLO Sunday MTT discussion has been ongoing for 10 months now on a larger, united scale. Finally getting one after a long wait after this meeting would be a great result. I am hopeful reading the meeting reports, but I'm not holding my breath.

These issues...

...have some been addressed over multiple meetings and some of them even successfully acted upon, so it's up to the 2p2 meeting reps to keep hammering on these issues and pray that something happens over long-term.

I'm not against sending reps because there is always an off-chance that something good might happen due to attendance of accomplished individuals like GGARJ. In fact I hope he goes to the next meeting too, but I doubt he wants to

My point in this post is that we need to adjust our expectations regarding these meetings and try to see the long-term picture and not seek for short-term gratification for big changes.

Competition is essential, so let's hope that some network rises to the challenge and puts pressure on the industry as a whole to make changes (such as reducing the ridiculous small stakes PLO rake), not only Pokerstars. This almost monopoly situation is not healthy.

+1

It seems to me the PLO reps going there generally have done a good job and GGARJ seems to be one of the rep's putting most effort into finding out what the community want pre meetings.

I somehow doubt you have played a lot of micro & smallstakes PLO on Stars

If you did there would be NO chance you would be writing this.

Haha, I think you should ask me again in 4 months when the new meetings are announced. Right now I'm not so sure.

I'm ready to admit that the PLO-rake reduction a year ago might not be the best example of achievements from the meetings, but I stand by my statement that many big changes desired by the community can be pushed more efficiently via the meetings. That's not possible without first reaching a strong consensus on the forums, obviously.

I'm gonna run next time

No choking like on the podcast, gonna Get straight #aggro with stars #COMEATME

NO NDA GONNA HOLD ME BACK , I REPRESENT THE PEOPLE

#SRPPLAYERREP2015 #SANDWICHES

fwiw, although I'm not interested much in these meetings if they continue, I do think it's better if the same person GGarj or a previous PLO rep attends, like joeri, to give the whole thing a bit more consistency.

Bold truth.

In fairness to Stars, they did sort out the ratholing problem with the buy-in obligations method, so that was a good change that possibly came about from the meetings, although they did take about a year to address the issue from start to finish.

I've played some, but there is more to these meetings than PLO grinders whining (I'm not saying that it is without reason but some of the screeching in this thread is actually kind of funny) about the rake.

One point I do agree with that someone made was about the current promotion. Its not a good promotion. Stars need to come up with something more interesting and worthwhile.

i reject any notion that i may have been substantially involved in developing the anti-ratholing solution. after all it is very unlikely that, given the human resource stars had at that time, i was the one coming up with the pretty obvious logical solution to the problem. likely they where just being kind an attributed to me what they already had in mind and on paper.

+1000

didn't you already try that system with table starters only for CAP tables at higher stakes with terrible results? Why would you think it will work better for normal tables?

Steve, you haven't addressed this issue: the problem with scripting now is the Reserved seat abuse. Recs can't join because the table is blocked by R...this is a problem for all parties involved and this IS something that you can fix and should fix.
Detecting scripts is problematic and there are good reasons not to stop them either...but stopping the R abuse is easy and there is absolutely no reason to let it go on.
Please let us know your opinion about this.


P.S : GGRJ, has this specific part been discussed at the meetings?

The general method of how to solve the rat-holing solution for first discussed at the IOM meeting a couple of years ago, and even though it took far too long to be implemented, we probably wouldn't have had the changes without the meeting.

The general method was known, but I don't believe they already had in mind how they were going to implement it. Your solution solved that.

Not quite the way you mean, but:

I brought up a specific type of script that reserves the fourth seat at the table on the immediate left of the third one (two regs start the game, fish joins, scripter gets jesus-seat). I mentioned one particular midstakes PLO reg who clearly uses it, Steve wrote down his SN, and promised to see if there's a simple way to prevent this type if behaviour.

Not sure if that leads into anything, though, as table starters seems to be the preferred solution.

from what Steve posted table starter will be in trial mode at high stakes and if the results are good they will extend it to midstakes in the longer run.
So I don't know why many posters here view it as an almost sure thing to happen.
Because it will likely fail to provide good results at high stakes just as it did for CAP games(I think they gave it up there).
Even if they force it down our throats saying it provided good results at high stakes->the games will almost die at midstakes too and it won't take long for them to realize it.

And of course there is a simple way to prevent someone from reserving a seat 1000 times and refusing to take it without affecting rec players, I'd feel silly to even give suggestions on how to do that.

P.S: I don't like that you gave his SN to Steve and reported his behavior, unfortunately what he is doing is within the rules and punishing individual players won't do any good.

Certainly not a sure thing yet, just saying that's apparently the primary goal. I'll let Steve address that for obv reasons.

Also, just to be clear, neither me nor Stars believe this player I mentioned is in any way breaking the rules. I simply gave him as an example of a particular type of script.

I would really like to see steve respond to the other point about this change though, It won't actually stop scripting. People will start scripting table starters and also continue to script the new tables that are running. So it will still be all the same player playing at the table as currently.

Steve, why have Zoom only and table-starters ONLY AT HIGH STAKES? Scripters are a huge pest at MID STAKES as well, and the problem is EQUALLY serious unlike what you mentioned.