qft

Yea, don't actually bother responding to any of my points or anything. So let me get this straight... YOU brought up the 20bb vs 30bb cap difference, and when I respond with a valid point regarding that same difference it's 'nitpicking'.... hypocrite much?

Pokerstars hasn't announced anything positive, or am I missing a secret announcement? In case you've been in a cave, we were waiting ~a year for Stars 'announcement' last year too, and nothing 'positive' came. Instead, Stars actually managed to make things worse. Now it has taken Stars another year to even announce that they will announce (SOOOOON) whether they will actually do anything positive or not. So, i'm still holding my breathe...

And, you have a strange view of the world if you think the players exploiting the system could ever look better than players trying to end that exploitation, but w/e not everyone gets it I guess.

Completely agree, and well put.

QFT +1

Theres a reason there are a lot more slot players than poker players: people like to GAMBLE. Thinking that most poker players think of poker as some beautiful skill game is silly.

I mostly play deepish, but I sometimes enjoy hyperturbos to get my gambling fix.

I for one am nervous about replacing 20-50 bb with cap (why do you guys type "cap" with Caps lock?) You want to accommodate players who want to gamble and it seems bad to replace a game format that is popular (20-50) with a format that is unpopular (cap).

Don't be nervous. Eliminating 50bb max would be GREAT for poker. You can gamble in any game if you want. NLHE will still be popular.

mind reader.

Fair enough. If Stars implements 30 bb Cap would you be fine with it being in the NL tab?

Well everything they've said makes it sound like it'll be a big time positive result for the 100 bb tables.

I agree they should end the exploitation(they should just jack up the rathole timer and make the tables 20-40, 40-100). However, whatever happens I'm certainly not going to complain on how much a game that I don't play is raked. If Stars wants to make 20 bb cap beatable by lowering the rake a small % then you need to either find a way to come to grips with that or just play on another site.

yeah, dont forget this guys.

Good question, because I do think it's close at 30bb Cap. But, i'm leaning to being fine with 30bb Cap in the NL tab as long as it's properly labeled, and isn't given preferential rake treatment. If Stars goes to 20bb Cap though, I think it's different enough from NLHE to need it's own tab.

I'm not aware of any Stars rep hinting at anything positive for 100bb tables? I've only read a few posters that say they heard this or that,and the speculation doesn't seem too different then this time last year, but I hope your right.

I think the far majority of poker players are aware that poker is a game of skill. But, whether they are or not... the fact is that poker IS a game of skill, and players that care about the future of the game will fight to make sure it STAYS that way. Any format that lowers edges dramatically, and brings the game closer to pure gambling (like hyper turbos) is simply not a good thing for skilled players for obvious reasons.

The perfect game of poker has enough edge for skill to win out, but enough gamble that losing players don't go broke quickly enough to stop playing.

More edge does not always mean a better game of poker - if a game with less skill edge draws in players that would otherwise not play or go broke too soon to continue playing, then you could easily argue it's better for the health of the game. What if the only game spread was deep stack omaha, for example? The game would quickly die, losing players would go busto much too fast.

No worries though, I found the perfect game of poker for you:

original: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt2i0ts-uck

fullstacking is stupid if theres only reg around you, better to risk less, be smart

Cap should not be in the NL tab IMO it should be under PL. But it obviously will be.

sigh it wouldnt be fair to the SSers, to have their games losing all their fish due to the labeling system..............oh wait?





edit: in before bot infested CAP tables

Hadn't even thought of that. 20BB CAP with lowered rake is a botters wet dream.

+1

go tell george lind about the hypers, guys made a ton playing 10bb poker. The market cant even play with 10bbs properly let alone 100bbs.

btw IMO anyone who complains that a rake is too low is maybe doing the absolute worst thing for Internet poker imaginable. The rake is by far the biggest enemy of every player, and it's not even close. There should be a constant fight to lower the rake, as this is what will really drastically increase everyone's win rate, instead of this constant bickering about getting game types changed to your exact specification. Not wanting a rake to be lower, in any poker game, is absolute insanity. For all I'm concerned I'd love it if Pokerstars and FullTilt Poker lowered the rake by 50% in every single game that I don't currently play.

I agree that the rake is to high. However IMO lowering the rake at 20BB CAP would kill poker even faster than the current rake. 20BB CAP would reward players with less skill more. It would also be a massive botting ground. Internet poker looks shady to the casual player as it is. The proof of that is the rigged thread that is on the first page every day. Ipoker might not survive a large scale botting scandal.

just out of interest why are bots more likely at 20bb cap than 20bb-50bb?

He has also played a sick amount of them. What is his ROI? How much of the money he made came from bonuses? These are all things that matter. Also you are talking about one guy. Can the skill edge in the hypers sustain 2 regs? 10regs? 100regs? The fact that one guy can beat the game type proves nothing.

If they don't lower the rake they aren't. If they however do lower it then the game will be come easier to beat and more people will make bots since it will become more profitable. The problem however is not the rake it is the fact that the 20BB game is so dumbed down that even a home made bot can beat it for a decent return.

Feel free to argue out these rake issues, integrity issues, and what's "good" for the fish issues. However, I'm focused on ONE main change: getting the ratholing CAP game out of NLHE and 20bb CAP games with 35 min bb NLHE games do that, so I hope that's what's coming. If that change is made, whatever "ISSUES" remain can be contained within each game because the overwhelming majority of issues so far have been a direct result of trying to keep two different games in the same space. If we can get each game in two different sandboxes, we'll advance the quality of the games light years ahead of where it is now. I'm not exaggerating when I say SHORT of legalizing online poker, PokerStars making this change is the best thing that could happen to online poker.

NL and PL are under the same tab hahaha ******

im not going to look, think its on shark scope, seem to recall hes made alot of cash pre bonus. ROI i think is low, its 10bb. Todays game seems to emphasize a little more on volume than in previous years.

if george lind was the only guy who could get his type of results at the hyper turbos with 10bbs doesn't that prove theres still quite a skill gap? Do you think any of us (assuming we all semi competent) could sit in those hypers and compete no probs?