...I'm posting this here instead of STT forum mainly because the Stars improvement thread is located here...
Poker Stars you are an industry leader with a reputation for quality customer service. I would like an in depth and cogent explanation about why there is a 10% rake percentage on the “Double or Nothing” SNG's. You and I disagree on this poker table issue. So stand up, I'm calling you out to the center of the street for a showdown. I expect a convincing, believable, clear and incisive presentation.
First of all some background is need for some people who don't know what the heck is a “Double or Nothing” SNG's. They are some SNG's that started and became popular on some other poker sites. Simply put they are 10 player SNG's that pay the last 5 players to survive double the buy-in and the other 5 players get nothing. Oh yeah lets not forget the whole purpose of this thread. Players requested these on Stars and they set the rake percentage at 10%. 10 i-n-s-a-n-e percent. Once these DON's showed up on Stars astute players immediately started complaining about the rake percentage. Stars made only two replies. Number 1, we are pricing it the same as other poker sites. Number 2, the entry fee and total prize pool of these events is identical to other 9 player SNG's, that is why the fee matches those events.
Let's break it down...
Number 1, just because some lower level poker site comes out with these first and prices them insanely is not an excuse for Stars to do the same. This was in fact an opportunity to pick up more players by having people play DON's on Stars instead of some other sites because the rake was fair at Stars
Like I said, the second these tournaments hit Stars, astute players immediately saw that the fee was too high.
Number 2, these tournaments do not play like other 9 player SNG's. In fact they play like a heads up tournament. Half the players get double the buy-in. Be it a heads up tournament of 2 players where 1 player get paid double OR a tournament of 10 players and 5 players get paid double, the premise is the same. There is also a important second part to Stars claim that the fee is priced to similar 9 player SNG's. These tournament when first introduced were regulars but then switched to turbos. Stars turbos have a lower rake % than regulars but when the change was made there was no reduction in the rake percentage. Can anyone say hypocrisy?
Furthermore, these DON's don't qualify for the “Battle of the Planets” promo. The promo is just a way of giving some of the rake Stars collects back to the players thereby reduce the rake % players pay. The DON's get nothing back which further puts that 10% number out of whack with the rest of your SNG's.
So I would like some answers. Given the pricing of all of your SNG's can you in good conscience say that the rake % in these DON's are priced correctly? Can you in good conscience say the DON's play more like a normal 9 player SNG instead of a heads up turbo SNG?
I believe these DON's should be priced exactly like the heads up turbo SNG's
$ 6 + .25
$11 + .50
$22 + 1
$33 + 1.50
$55 + 2.50
$110 + 5
If an arbitrator had to choose between the current pricing and mine, I think I would win.
I hope you don't take a “ah people are playing them at this price, screw the rake complaints we are getting” approach. You are going to end up with some angry customers down the line when they look back and realize they were getting ripped off and the fee should have never been that high for this type of tournament.
So Poker Stars I'm calling you out. I'm willing to put myself out there even though you have more bullets than me. David did alright against Goliath and later he got the very hot babe Bathsheba. They later had a son name Solomon who knew a thing or two about being wise and fair.
I've never played these but just hearing about the format I get the impression they would last as long -- and maybe longer -- than a standard 50/30/20 tournament.
I'm not sure that I agree the rake "should" be as low as a HU tourney, but they are turbo tournaments and I believe the fees should at least reflect that. It's kind of ridiculous for PStars to be charging the same % as regulars for these.
the rake should be lower then regular sngs but if people are going to pay the rake to play them then why would a site lower them (there in it for money)
I've never played these but just hearing about the format I get the impression they would last as long -- and maybe longer -- than a standard 50/30/20 tournament.
I have played around 25 of these and they last about 30 minutes on average.
OP...great post. Copying...pasting...sending to PS.
I played 4 of these today (won all 4 too hehe sofft), the rake did seem kind of high but they seemed reallly soft because of all the fish who know nothing about icm. its basically a sattelite sng, but yea the 10% seemed high to me, but i doubt they'll lower it b/c these seem pretty popular and most ppl dont care or mind. maybe they should give double FPP for them? just an idea idk
In a sense, the rake should be 5% and capped at $5 just like a cash table. With these events taking about 40 minutes with 10 players it's about equivalent to a 200bb pot every 8 minutes.
For the people that love these now, the fish haven't adjusted yet (one of the things that makes them fishy is that they are slow in such regards), but once they have played a few dozen and realised they have to nit it up a little, that 10% rake is going to bite you on the ass, and it's going to take fish away from the regular STTs.
10% rake on these is going to kill the incomes of a lot of STT grinders.
Stars, I have never ever complained before about rake in my life, but please fix this.
