does look kinda like a straight money grab/increacing the rake stars retains from their biggest customers


i applaud everyone getting involved and actively protesting a business partner who turned you all from poker players into rakeback grinders by dangling SNE in front of you and is now taking that $ back


you currently pay $200k in rake to get SNE, dont think "rakeback" is some sort of benevolent gesture on the part of stars, its a business decision to prevent you from quitting the game because stars is making twice was much money as you are off all the hands you played for a year


now they are just trying to extract a little more value without losing their biggest fish (you)


glad you chose the "get mad and do something about it" option instead of the "lets spout some bull**** in defense of stars being able to run their business as they want even though you are their main source of income" option

stars made more than the sum of all winning players in 2011 true or false


thousands of winning players, hundreds of thousands of man hours on and off the table, millions and millions of hands < set up a poker client and watch the money come in, (and then ask for more and hope the regs dont notice or react)

you are missunderstanding the situation. the ONLY goal we need to reach right now is STOPING THE CHANGES on january 1st.

There should be time to negotiate after that and reach an agreement which satisfies everyone then. Is not the time to suggest changes or representation, but pressing towards a delay in the changes.

They just want to apply changes and once ppl start abandoning the strike we will lose power day by day, until everybody forgets and end up playing a 20% more.

I play 100% of my hands on PS and I am 2011 SNE btw.

PMs sent out.

U can paste text into the chat using speech to text recognition on windows 7. Activate chat box say something and there will be a paste box.


My inet sucks atm might not make it, but if do, show vip status or not?

don't worry too much about the organisational part of it.

it's NYE and if I wasn't ill I damm sure wouldn't spend it on 2p2

however, poker players are lazy and for everyone that actively posts in this thread there are 5 others agreeing but too lazy to say so. But tomorrow they will come out and strike.

Another thing to keep in mind is that we don't need to block up the entire table to cause chaos. At least at midstakes, games tend to break up whenever they go short - people that play six max don't want to play HU or three handed. That means that functionally, even 2-3 protesters on a six max table would probably force the game to break. If someone keeps looking for six max games and finds three players sitting out on every table, eventually they say "**** it," and load up the XBox.

Obviously smashing the limits and grinding games to a halt is the best case scenario, but if it's not "sticking," don't sweat it. We're still causing disruption, less rake, fewer games, and that will eventually put Pokerstars in a position where responding will be less expensive than letting games stop.

+1 Excellent Point

Just to check - it is 5pm GMT for UK players right?

spot on

Can I get some cliffs on this thread? I would like to participate, but I am too busy tonight to read the whole thread.

There should be a new thread with a full cliffs / details by tomorrow.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...hread-1145908/

This whole thread and the other thread are why stars is a joke. Lets spend hours, days, weeks, worrying about whether were getting 0.421 vpp/hand or 0.411vpp/hand or whatever bs, and completely ignore the desire to increase our knowledge at poker. Everytime I read a post by some guy who spent like 8 hours working out some algorithm and crunching numbers to come up with how many hours he has to play, and how many hands he has to play now, and how many VPP's he lost, i just laugh uncontrollably. Maybe if he spent that same amount of time working on his game, he wouldn't care as much because he'd actually make money while playing poker.

Thanks to everyone who helped out while I was gone. Today/tomorrow/monday are going to be really busy days for me. Since I'm still going to be in the US on the 1st, I'm going to need someone else to aggressively take the lead in organizing the sitout.

In my opinion, the most effective way is to start at 1 or 2 limits, and infiltrate the tables. Once they are mostly broken, we can start moving to other limits/games.

From someone who's apparently a coach and has over 6k posts this is shocking. Just fyi: most SNEs are winners in their games. Some are even the biggest winners at their limits. For a good percentage of them, SNE bonuses/rakeback represent less than 50% of their income.

Not to mention this is super off topic and has nothing to do with our protest or the thread.

+1. Had hopes to get 2012 off to a good start, but Stars found the worst way to ruin that.

I even went to NCSU as well, and I still can't stand anyone who is losing sleep over the rake change. STOP PLAYING POKER FOR RAKEBACK. Atleast all of you guys are on one site. Do you guys really really think that pokerstars is going to reverse the changes? They know you'll keep playing no matter what, because even with the changes you're still gonna get the best deal out there for the volume you want to put in. So, they have one day where they might miss out on a little rake. The only way you could change it is if you sat out for months or a year, costing them billions in rake. Then they might listen. Also, I really doubt most SNE's are winners in their games. Everytime I go look at some 12/10 SNE's PTR hes down like 40k.

Nobody said anything about 1 day. The plan is to sit out until a change happens. And this thread is already working. Just the threat of it is already warranting SOME comments from the site. You should have a little faith in the ability for us to make positive changes for everyone. Remember, all we are asking for benefits everybody. (Redistribution of the extra funds through either lower rake, higher VPP multipliers, happy hours, bonuses, whatever). I don't care if every single penny of the extra money goes back to fish somehow, as long as it goes back somewhere.

Edit: as far as most SNEs being losers, go look at the list in the SNE pursuit thread and then come back. The likes of bruut, duckslayer, krmont, willybeer, pistons, innerpsy, alphafoil, pappadogg, neomorf, godlikeroy, yadada, mellowyellow, and thats just off the top of my head.

Good cliffs, thanks to MSauce.

So, like 3 or 400 or so people make SNE, and you can think of like 10-15 that are winners? I'd be willing to bet that the majority (>50%) are losers at the tables.

I'm actually impressed tho that you guys who care sooooooooooooooooo much about your VPP's would be willing to sit out until stars makes a change. I mean, hasn't someone already created like 10 charts and graphs and algorithms about how many VPP's you'll lose by sitting out until stars makes a change? It'll be like March, and you guys will still be sitting out, and you'll only have like 9 months to make SNE if they decide to finally make a change.

< 300 people make SNE and I can think of those off the top of my head as far as cash regulars. Remember, a ton of SNEs are SNG players too. And almost all of them win as well, I just don't know any of them because thats not what I play.

Edit: I'm hopeful we'll see changes long before then. Remember, in less than 3 days Stars has already made changes to their changes and want to speak with players. They know how bad for PR/Rake this could be.

Go troll your coaching elsewhere. We're not impressed, you're making yourself look like a total ass.

Save this, bro. There's no need for it. Its so much easier just to lay out the facts.

MSauce,

Check your PMs