Note: Please do not reply to this thread or your post will be deleted by a moderator. If you have something to contribute, please use the original Mass Sitout thread HERE in order to discuss.
As the Mass Sitout thread is now getting quite long and continues to evolve rapidly, I am going to be posting here the cliffs and strategies for our protest as well as what we are attempting to accomplish in doing so.
As the mods on 2p2 have graciously agreed to let me start this thread in order to keep everything organized, they have asked that no one else reply to it or their posts will be deleted. Thanks again to them.
I will start with cliffs on what has happened so far:
Pokerstars Steve announced Ring Game Rake changes on December 28th, 2011 that are effective January 1st, 2012.
Link to the original post by Steve: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...58&postcount=1
Since then, all the physical rake amount and percentage changes we’re revoked in this post: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=654
Unfortunately, this was not the response we are looking for as players. The rake changes listed in the original post had some good parts to it including a decrease in fullring rake as well as rake at the micro limits. Our complaints about the rake percentage/cap changes were only the increase in cap at 5 handed play. These increases were substantial and would have had a negative affect primarily on shorthanded players above 25nl/plo.
Weighted Contributed vs. Dealt Method of Calculating VPPs
This is the main issue we are dealing with now since Stars has pulled the other changes already. To keep this brief, PokerStars is changing the method of awarding VPPs. The old system (Dealt) would take whatever the rake was for the hand and divide it by the number of players dealt into the hand. For instance, if 6 players were dealt into a hand that reached a $3 rake, each player would be awarded $0.50. That amount multiplied by the VPP multiplier (currently 6 for FR and 5.5 for shorthanded), would equal your amount of VPPs gained for that hand.
For Weighted Contributed, the distribution would be more like this:
Under the new method, the VPPs will be awarded as follows:
• Player 1 contributed $6 (10% of the pot) and so receives 1.65 VPPs.
• Player 2 contributed $0 (0% of the pot) and so receives 0 VPPs.
• Player 3 contributed $0 (0% of the pot) and so receives 0 VPPs.
• Player 4 contributed $27 (45% of the pot) and so receives 7.43 VPPs.
• Player 5 contributed $27 (45% of the pot) and so receives 7.43 VPPs.
The problem with this change is that a very large majority of the sites regulars (and also most loyal clients) will lose some percentage of their rakeback. The changes will affect everyone differently based on your vpip, avg amount of money you contribute to the pot, and other factors. The tighter players will be affected more than the looser players on the site however most regulars (Nits, TAGs, LAGs, and everything between) will see a decrease in rakeback for the 2012 year if the changes announced remain.
If you are interested in exactly how this will affect you please view GobletTamer’s post on how to view your rake changes using your database. I will say, that most reports, have been substantially lower (between 10-30% rakeback loss).
Although changing the way VPPs are awarded should in theory result in some players losing an amount, and other players gaining an equal amount, this is not the case in the WC system. Since the only players who will substantially increase the amount of VPPs made per hand will typically be recreational players (due to their very high vpips and high showdown %), these recreational players will not have a high enough VIP level to substantially increase their rakeback. They will be forced to use their FPPs inefficiently or will not receive certain milestones because of their lack of play.
This means that almost all the high volume regulars will lose money, the recreational players will gain very little, and stars will gain all the rest.
What are we doing about it?
As the biggest poker community on the net our opinions CERTAINLY deserve to be heard. We have already rallied together to start to create a protest against these changes. I have organized a Mass Sitout thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...anges-1145349/
) in order to show Stars how serious we are about rejecting these proposed changes.
The plan with this protest is, starting on January 1st and 12PM EST
, to sit out on 24 tables each while also informing players who may be unaware as to what is going on and why so many regulars are sitting out in the games. The best plan of attack is to start with 1 or 2 limits (I propose we start with 100nl and 200nl) and then make our way through the other limits and games as more and more people join in.
I will update this thread again when it is closer to the time to start sitting out in order to coordinate our effort and make sure our protest is very successful in sending a clear sign to the PokerStars Management.
Also, we encourage each and every one of you to send PokerStars support (firstname.lastname@example.org) an email and let them know (politely please; remember, the support staff are not the ones coming up with the changes) that you are unhappy with the current proposed changes and will protest the changes if they are not reconsidered.
We have also been tweeting to Daniel Negreanu (@realkidpoker) and PokerStars (@PokerStars) expressing our concerns. Earlier today we sent a prefilled tweet by the masses that said “@RealKidPoker please fight for the players @PokerStars and help mgmt see that the change to WC rake without any compensation is unfair!”
Unfortunately, both Stars and Daniel did not understand and responded with “To all those tweeting at me about the rake changes, the issue has been addressed in the forum” which is very, very, misinformed.
I have created a new prefilled tweet in order to tell both Daniel and Stars that they have NOT addressed the changes we have asked for and it can be sent HERE
in order to respond to his incorrect reply.
Please also change your location to “Sitting out @ PokerStars on Jan 1st” to help spread awareness of this issue to other parts of the 2p2 message board that may not browse Internet Poker frequently.
What we are seeking:
As it says in the link inside of the prefilled tweet, the following are our proposed changes (I will update this as we get new suggestions)
(Originally posted by TheMetetrown)
1. Rake caps of $.50/$1/$1.5/$2/$3 for 2/3/4/5/6+ handed play
2. 4.5% linear rake up to the cap
3. The same proposed reductions for Rake at the micro limits.
PLUS ONE OF THE FOLLOWING TWO OPTIONS
3a. Winner take all rake calculation method
4a. 6x VPP across the board
3b. WC rake calculation method
4b. 6.5x VPP across the board
Also, we still need someone who is a regular in the limit games to address their rake concerns since I am not very knowledgeable in limit variants of poker.
I think the most important thing to note is that we think any increased revenue Stars receives due to a change in the way that VPPs are awarded, should be given back to the players in some way, shape, or form. These are simply some proposed changes we think would be fair and would help give some of the money back to your most loyal customers.
There are also VIP/Rake changes happening on PokerStars.fr which have been said to decrease rakeback by 12.5% and possibly more. Since that is a separate site, I’ll keep this portion brief but it’s worth noting that this rakeback decrease is happening on multiple PokerStars sites.
I will continue to update this thread when I have more information to share or more preparation for the Mass Sitout. Again I want to thank everyone for helping to take a stand against these changes.