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Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope

11-06-2008 , 02:47 PM
Hello Mr. D. Bag,

PokerStars has been listening to recent player feedback regarding
SharkScope.

SharkScope remains a prohibited service while playing at PokerStars, but
as a result of player feedback, we have now reconsidered the methods that
we intend to use to prevent players from accessing unauthorised
profitability and ROI data.

We want to limit the amount of information that third party results
websites can publish because of our strong commitment to upholding the
integrity of our games.

We oppose websites publishing player profitability data by default for two
key reasons:

Firstly, many of our players simply don't want their ROI information to be
publicly available. They have a right to privacy of this information.

Secondly, it gives an unfair advantage to those players who are able to
obtain ROI data about players who have not consented for their information
to be shown.

We have been working with various sites that currently display player
profitability data and the vast majority of those sites have agreed to
modify the default settings for the display of player data. Sites who are
working with us have agreed that profitability data will only be available
on players who have themselves specifically opted in, thus giving their
consent for their profitability data to be displayed on that service. The
default setting will be that tournament cashes only will be displayed. The
sites who intend to comply with our data policy also agree to allow
players to opt out totally from their service, so that zero information
will be displayed about them. SharkScope has refused to remove player
profitability and ROI data by default and therefore their service now
falls into the category of prohibited for use in conjunction with the
PokerStars Client.

However, we understand that players have expressed concerns regarding our
recent detection methods, and we recognise that we made a mistake.
Consequently, we will explain the error, and correct it.

We detected players who visited the SharkScope website by having the
PokerStars Client monitor active network connections using built in
Windows functions for that purpose. The data returned by this function is
similar to that which is returned by the Windows accessory
called 'Netstat'. A periodic query to Windows determined whether the
SharkScope IP was being accessed. This was a YES/NO query, purely
regarding access to the specific SharkScope IP address. If a connection
to the SharkScope IP was detected, this fact and only this fact was sent
back to the PokerStars server. We then sent warning emails to players who
had accessed SharkScope in conjunction with the PokerStars Client.

This technique ensured that players accessing the SharkScope website were
detected without breaching their right to privacy. At no stage was a
player's internet browsing history ever queried, or transmitted from the
PokerStars Client to the PokerStars Server.

However, despite our assertion above, we understand that some players are
unhappy with the perception that PokerStars monitors their internet
browsing habits. Consequently, even though PokerStars does not monitor
players' internet browsing habits, we have decided to disable and
completely remove this feature of our software to avoid even the slightest
perception of privacy breaches. After all, our policy to prevent Third
Party Websites publishing player profitability data by default was based
on our strong belief that players have a right to privacy.

We also accept that some players who received a warning did not visit the
SharkScope website with the expressed intent to break PokerStars rules. We
would like to apologise to those players. It is SharkScope who should bear
the greater burden for breaking PokerStars' rules and our enforcement
emphasis will now focus on them.

To confirm, SharkScope will remain a prohibited service, for the reasons
listed above. We ask that players do not use it at all in conjunction with
PokerStars - the website, the HUD, or any other future tools that they
might develop.

However, we will divert our development efforts to limiting the
effectiveness of SharkScope by preventing their ability - or the ability
of certain other datamining sites - to extract the data from the
PokerStars client without either the permission of PokerStars, or the
players concerned.

We believe that this policy correction will deliver on our twin
commitments of listening to players who have overwhelmingly asked us to
prevent SharkScope from publishing their private information, but also
listening to players who were concerned about their browsing privacy.

As always, we welcome feedback on this policy, so please email us anytime
at support@pokerstars.com. We will work hard to deliver the best possible
poker games, with the highest standards of integrity now and into the
future.


Regards,
PokerStars Game Security.

cliff notes: they made a mistake about scanning peoples internet browsers and wont do it anymore.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 02:55 PM
interesting...that story has changed a lot from yesterday
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 03:13 PM
I was okay with Stars checking my browser specifically for sharkscope and nothing more.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 03:16 PM
so now they're going to try to stop SS from gathering stats altogether?

i preferred option A by far.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1p0kerboy
I was okay with Stars checking my browser specifically for sharkscope and nothing more.
I agree.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 03:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1p0kerboy
I was okay with Stars checking my browser specifically for sharkscope and nothing more.
Agreed. I've been saying for a couple of days that the most likely scenario was that all the checks were done by the client and just the positive match was sent back to the server. There's no need to waste bandwidth when they can use your computer to do the work.

I think Pokerstars is doing the right thing from a PR point of view, but they were within their ToS to implement this check from the point of view of protecting what they feel was necessary for the integrity of their games. This wasn't an especially new type of security check. The client still monitors your active processes looking for suspect process names (pokerbot.exe or whatever) as well as digital signatures of prohibited software.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1p0kerboy
I was okay with Stars checking my browser specifically for sharkscope and nothing more.
No, it's intrusive and they have no right or business knowing what IP address you hit. It's a little thing we like to call Freedom. And they weren't "checking your browser". It had nothing to do with IE, Firefox or any other browser.

As far as this whole mess goes, they were trying to punish players for using what is and what always have been at their disposile. At least now they got it right and don't attack their customer base. Go after the source of the problem. They should have from the start.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 06:04 PM
This is the final nail in the coffin. So long jokerstars, Full Tilt here I come.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry Pie
This is the final nail in the coffin. So long jokerstars, Full Tilt here I come.
This makes no sense.

You're upset that Stars reversed their decision to monitor your internet connections?
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 06:23 PM
Stars should just make it so anyone using Sharkscope automatically gets a chat ban for a month. This takes care of the root problem of obnoxious table coaching and keeps players from feeling intimidated. And the people that want to use Sharkscope while playing on Stars don't give a damn about chatting anyway.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry Pie
This is the final nail in the coffin. So long jokerstars, Full Tilt here I come.
You are mad because PS listened to our concerns AGAIN and admitted they were in the wrong? Please correct me if Im wrong but show me another poker site that listens to players concerns more than "jokerstars" (btw the only people I ever hear calling pokerstars "jokerstars" are losing players)
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_C_Slater
Stars should just make it so anyone using Sharkscope automatically gets a chat ban for a month. This takes care of the root problem of obnoxious table coaching and keeps players from feeling intimidated. And the people that want to use Sharkscope while playing on Stars don't give a damn about chatting anyway.
Actually you make a good point.

Stars could just give out severe chat bans for players who are using results from tracking sites to belittle the other players.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 06:29 PM
i suppose you could use the excuse that you were using it for ftp at the same time...
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 06:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1p0kerboy
Actually you make a good point.

Stars could just give out severe chat bans for players who are using results from tracking sites to belittle the other players.

I don't think they have the resources to monitor all the chat and even if they did it would be a lot of work. It's easier to just auto-ban chat from anyone using Sharkscope. And of course the serious mass multitablers won't mind at all. The casual player doesn't get embarrassed and play less or somewhere else. Stars doesn't apper to be draconian. Everyone wins. That is as long as Stars doesn't try to save face by pretending that they really do care about things being "unfair." That would violate the very laws of nature and of life.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 06:37 PM
so does that mean they will not monitor if we go to sharkscope anymore??
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 07:00 PM
Anybody verified that this email is legit? (sorry if you're a well known poster OP, I just haven't heard this anywhere else)
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 07:28 PM
A- to stars for this move. They admitted the netstat thing was wrong, and corrected the problem, and for this they deserve abundant props.

They lose points, IMO, because they still assert their right to prohibit players from veiwing certain websites while the pokerstars client is running. The sense im getting is that this is going to be an unenforced rule now, but i still think they are out of line for making such an assertion.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy
Anybody verified that this email is legit? (sorry if you're a well known poster OP, I just haven't heard this anywhere else)
its a trap I smell it too
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoRy
Anybody verified that this email is legit? (sorry if you're a well known poster OP, I just haven't heard this anywhere else)

Yes this is a legitimate email.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 07:34 PM
This just shows that pokerstars doesnt really care about the integrity of their games. Just because a bunch of babies complained on a message board they decide to let the cheaters win. GG pokerstars, you will no longer be receiving my business.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry Pie
This just shows that pokerstars doesnt really care about the integrity of their games. Just because a bunch of babies complained on a message board they decide to let the cheaters win. GG pokerstars, you will no longer be receiving my business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry Pie
This is the final nail in the coffin. So long jokerstars, Full Tilt here I come.
Thanks for clarifying your position.

So you are going to play at Full Tilt, which allows the use of sharkscope? lol
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1p0kerboy
I was okay with Stars checking my browser specifically for sharkscope and nothing more.

They were hardly up front about what they were doing to begin with... not sure if i trust them to be so specific about their search.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 07:57 PM
I don't even get why you even have to change anything. The good players that don't want their stats seen have already disabled them from being seen. The bad players don't care either way because they don't expect to win and don't care what people think. And if this happened because of ignorant players talking badly to others about their SS rating then they're the ones that should be punished for it... not everyone else.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1p0kerboy
Thanks for clarifying your position.

So you are going to play at Full Tilt, which allows the use of sharkscope? lol
at least fulltilt is consistent on their views. that puts everyone on a level playing field.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote
11-06-2008 , 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry Pie
at least fulltilt is consistent on their views. that puts everyone on a level playing field.
Yep. True. Even when a cheating scandal is identified, FTP don't communicate anything or do much about it. But that's fine if it's the same for everyone I guess.
Latest email from Pokerstars about sharkscope Quote

      
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