I think you're right, but at least there's no swearing.

Like xela, I think we should move on from the issue because it isn't being changed and the actual page is well-made, so we can at least be a little thankful

I have no problem with the webpage, per se.

The founders of Tiltbook generally underestimate their chances of making a living ($2K+ a month) after any major change. They were the most vocal opponents of Spin & Gos ('casino games') too, but those games have turned out very profitable in the long run (I mean the median profit of the top 25% of players, i.e. average serious regs, not the top 2%) which was proved by bighusla's challenge (to those who didn't dare to do the math earlier).

The Tiltbook owners have a mercenary interest in inviting every Stars player to switch to euro networks under their 'supervision' so that they can get affiliate revenue from that player's activity.

It was hilarious to see them invite people to play HU hypers on iPoker at the end of 2014, even though the majority of iPoker SnG traffic already was in Twister (a predecessor of Spin & Gos) at that time, and when I drew their attention to this fact, they of course condemned Twister as an 'unplayable casino game' too, despite it being the most profitable game on iPoker.

Pokerstars Matthew has hinted on the 2+2 podcast that a new poker format is coming to Stars in 2016, and I'm not going to hate or worship Amaya until we see how good or bad that game is an how high or low it's raked, and how much fish is attracted to Stars by the increased number of TV adverts.

"we the x poker players pissed at your VIP changes for 2016, want to tell you, that"

Where was that Reagan administration laughing meme.

in
w********s (plo 200-600)

Regardless of how much hard work may have gone into it, I think the point that oracle is making is that when the letter starts with "we the x poker players pissed at your VIP changes...", that letter is made more to look like nothing more than an off-the-cuff remark that negates some of any hard work that was put into it.

A letter that is written professionally throughout is simply going to carry more weight than a letter that contains a statement that looks like it was written by a character from "South Park".

And my point is that there is no point bitching about something that cannot be changed. Also it is obvious that Tiltbook did not do this for purely altruistic reasons but at least he did something that is good for the poker community.

So while it is certainly not perfect (from what I hear it was very hard to find a compromise) it is the best we have for now, so if you are against the changes then sign the petition. Also if you have other good ideas then don't waste your energy criticising something that cannot be changed but instead go about and implement those
ideas. Ratio of people who do something to people criticising people who actual did something is like 1:100.

Why can't it be changed? I would suggest that a productive starting point would be to employ a professional to take all the information and write a proper critical analysis of the changes i.e something that actually might be read by Amaya decision makers.

I personally wouldn't put my name to that at it stands, because despite disagreeing with the majority of Stars proposed changes, as I stated above I actually think it is counterproductive in its current form.

The way you are responding to this reminds of those charities that aggressively approach you in the street and try to force you to sign their petition. You might well agree with their core objection, but their operating procedure doesn't give you any faith that they are the right people to voice this concern and / or actually get the decision makers to listen to them.

As for the call basically if you don't agree, just do something yourself. It is a bit like me trying to change government policy by screaming from outside of parliament. It doesn't change a thing. You need to convince people of influence to take up your case, provide them with the right information, and deliver it in a professional way.

In the poker world, that is named players. A load of no-names (such as myself) would be the equivalent of the nutters who you see wandering around, shoving leaflets in peoples hands. They get nowhere.

Yeah, so why bother learning from one's mistakes? And you're really that sure that no other written communication is going to be made?

It's kind of ironic that you are the one who is actually putting forth the non-constructive criticism.

Guys, please discuss the January strike in a dedicated thread (or create one for that purpose). This one was meant to be dedicated to registration for the December one. Thank you.

It was in its own thread. The mods merged it with this one.

Correct. We'e not going to have a new thread every time someone wants to create some new protest/strike date/what have you.

In

Not that Ive played much since Ive had my dreams crushed and will not be able to play zoom with a hud or ever be able to get a decent return for getting to high Supernova levels

Dan*******o

Mtts $1 to $215 and Zoom 25nl

r**4
400+

Im not sure why would there a be a problem with it? Not that these threads pop up 10 times a day new after new one.
wtf is wrong w 2p2

Great!

I'm in

hendrixjimmi PLO200-1k

I'd have to guess there's been at least 5-10 of them so far (mostly in NVG), never mind the countless threads lambasting Stars' changes in many different ways. Believe it or not, there are people who have interest in other topics, so I don't think wanting to keep such threads from overrunning the forums means there's anything "wrong w 2p2".

s****i
50+

I would like to re-iterate that I did not create this petition but I won't comment anymore on your stance on it because we won't change each other's mind.

However your excuse for not wanting to do anything yourself is just ridiculous, no one cares who created such a petition if it is good. Your analogy is just wrong on several levels. And as I said above I would be happy to support a petition like the one you mentioned. I fact I guarantee you that I will get many more well-known mid and high stakes regs to support it if you manage to deliver. Let me know how you are getting on.

Again you miss the point. It isn't about if I can write an eloquent summary as a petition, which I could obviously do. It needs proper analysis and somebody to put together an effective case file, which can then be "petitioned". Simply gathering 100 or 1000 names under the heading we the undersigned are pissed, will do nothing. In fact, as I stated, I think it might even be counterproductive. If I was in Amaya's position, I certainly wouldn't take the things being presented seriously in anyway.

I personally have no experience of conducting this kind of research, nor the composition of a document that business execs relate to. That is what is required here. Negreanu said it himself, he needed concrete well thought positions to take to the board members of Amaya. That requires employing the skills of people who are experienced in using language multinational board members relate to and providing evidence in a format that they use daily to influence their decision making.

It is akin to going for angel investment funding without a professional business plan, none of these guys who pump millions into start-ups will touch you unless you present your case in a format that can easily evaluate in the terms they are used to. We aren't dealing with poker players here, or even people who care particularly for the game of poker, they are hardened business people who have shareholders and investors to satisfy.

Have you every considered that it might be you who is missing the point?

Your argument now for doing nothing is that you can't put together the most amazing case file (and let's face it none of us can because we are poker players and not business people). Though at the same time you said that many people with clout voiced some good reasons why the changes are bad for poker. Why can't you just collate it all in a open letter? Do you really think that doing nothing is going to be more effective than doing that? Oh well, you seem to rather spend your time telling people what should be done and hope that someone else steps in to do it. Except that no one will, but there will be loads of others like you criticising people who have done something. Very useful indeed.

Anyway, that is my last post on this topic, I have better things to do than arguing with keyboard warriors and the changes hardly effect me anyway. Gl

I am advocating exactly the opposite of doing nothing. I am advocating a plan of action that is likely to have more success than "we the pissed poker players" petition, that as I stated in my original post sounds like a spoiled child have a tantrum. And your reaction to my objection is coming off a lot like it to. Again, not something I would imagine Amaya board member would react very well to.

2+2 and poker in general is a wide community with many talented people. In addition, many Mid and high stakes pros are often well connected to people outside of online poker. I would advocate a better use of time than attacking me would be to try to find an individual with the required skills to be able to present a proper case to Pokerstars / Ayama. I am afraid I can't help with that.

If I was just here to slam you / this letter, be a "keyboard warriror", I would have simply just said well that letter is crap and left it at that. Instead, I have outlined at length the reasons why I don't think it is at all productive and presented an alternative vision.

You can get as angry and frustrated at me as you like, it won't change Amaya decisions and IMO neither will a very poorly conceived letter. Just doing something for somethings sake is not a well thought out position and just because people have spent time and effort into doing so doesn't make it the correct approach.

As for the petulant, "it doesn't really affect me", we know that these changes are likely to affect everybody and are actually an indication of a wider longer term plan of Amaya in relation to how they see the future of online poker.

Is there a sunday in there?

either way, I'm in One_Time184 mtt abi $15

bit worried i might forget the first day or sth but prob not

Hitler has already signed, Dimitri is refusing to and Risitas is laughing his butt off.

Plus, Scarmaker is in

i am in, chi....ic nl100-nl200