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If 50/50's replace DON's - please don't butcher the 10 minute blinds! If 50/50's replace DON's - please don't butcher the 10 minute blinds!

02-18-2011 , 06:10 PM
If 50/50 are supposed to replace DON's then what's with the butchered blind offerings? All I see are (turbo) 6 minute blinds, and (super turbo) 3 minute blinds! Yet stars are only officially calling their 3 min blind structure - "turbo". So, since when did players accept 6 minute blinds as "non-turbo"? Or, will there be 10 minute blinds offered as soon as the fateful day soon comes when DONs are no more?

I've nothing against turbos on occasion, but admittedly, I definitely preferred playing the 10 minute blind DON's. There must be many of us who liked/preferred the longer blind structure - or at least the choice of whether to play turbo or not!

Please Pokerstars: if you must take DON's off the table, at least give us the same choice of blind structures. Yes, many of us did prefer playing the DON's with 10 min blinds. Not all of us like playing turbos all the time. Variety is the spice of... online poker etc. etc. And I'm sure there are plenty of players who'd like the choice of whether to play turbo or non-turbo 50/50's. And please don't try to claim that 6 minute blinds is anything but 'turbo' in name.

If anything should be butchered, it's not the blind structure...

Last edited by Nietzchean Nibbles; 02-18-2011 at 06:18 PM.
If 50/50's replace DON's - please don't butcher the 10 minute blinds! Quote
02-18-2011 , 06:15 PM
Indeed not all of us are playing turbo!

Anyway No Big deal for me since i found a new playground

Helping smaller site to grow!
If 50/50's replace DON's - please don't butcher the 10 minute blinds! Quote
02-18-2011 , 06:23 PM
Here is a comparison of the blinds and antes of the Turbo DoN structure vs. the Turbo Fifty50 structure:

If 50/50's replace DON's - please don't butcher the 10 minute blinds! Quote
02-18-2011 , 07:14 PM
Yes that's another notable point, when comparing 50/50 turbos to DON turbos - the blinds have indeed been beefed up in the manner you've shown.

In arguing that the present 10 minute blind structure (of DON's) be continued, let's hope too that if 10 minute blinds are introduced, when that fateful day arrives, that the 50/50's betting structure should also echo the present structure - at least as far as any ten minute blind games are concerned.

Anyway, here's hoping that Stars will see the sense of offering greater choice to all former DON customers.

@Dlogic: yep, if they don't offer similar choice in blind structures and lose too many disgruntled former DON players who don't just want turbos, them maybe they'll see the sense of offering more choice then. If... it's not too late.

Last edited by Nietzchean Nibbles; 02-18-2011 at 07:19 PM.
If 50/50's replace DON's - please don't butcher the 10 minute blinds! Quote
02-18-2011 , 07:41 PM
I'm reposting this from the DoN thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve
Fifty50 blind structure speed compared to DoNs
The structure for Turbo Fifty50s is not similar to a hyper-turbo. While the blinds are 3 minutes per level, the blind increases per level are smaller than the blind increases in other tournaments. The 'speed' of the Fifty50 blind structure is quite similar to the 'speed' of the Double or Nothing blind structure.

Here is an extreme example of why length of levels is not a complete indicator of speed:

Tournament A has 5 minute levels and 1500 starting chips
Level 1: 100/200
Level 2: 200/400
Level 3: 400/800

Tournament B has 3 minute levels and 1500 starting chips
Level 1: 10/20
Level 2: 15/30
Level 3: 20/40
Level 4: 25/50
Level 5: 30/60

While tournament B has shorter levels, it has the slower structure as the blinds start lower and the levels increase far more gradually.

A more complete way to compare blind structures is to evaluate the blinds and antes after X minutes of play, for each value of X. For example, we can compare the blinds and antes in tournament A after 5 minutes to the blinds and antes in tournament B after 5 minutes of play.

Here is a comparison of the blinds and antes of the Turbo DoN structure vs. the Turbo Fifty50 structure:



The Fifty50 structure is a little bit faster but the difference is not nearly comparable to the difference between a turbo and a hyper turbo. The major important differences in the structure are in the 25th minute and during the 28th minute and beyond. Many Fifty50s do not even make it to the 28th minute. Many Fifty50s end in the 22nd, 23rd, 24th, 26th, and 27th minutes when the blinds are the same as what they would be in the current DoN structure and the ante is only very slightly (5 chips) higher.


The blind structure was chosen for a reason
PokerStars consulted with many high volume Sit & Go players prior to setting the structure for Fifty50s. Two different structures were trialed by players recruited from 2+2 and by Team Online members. The structure chosen was the clear preference of the participants.

When discussing Sit & Go blind structures, players commonly mentioned that stalling near blind raises was becoming more common. The change to this structure is intended to reduce the impact of stalling to time blind increases as each blind increase is a smaller amount.


Regardless of the reason, Fifty50s are finishing faster than DoNs
While the changed structure is not the main cause of the Fifty50s ending faster than Double or Nothings, the fact remains that the Fifty50s are finishing more quickly on average than Double or Nothings did. The main cause of this difference is likely the differing play styles utilized in the two tournaments due to the different payout structure.

Players have made good points about the average duration of the Fifty50s being shorter than the average DoN of the same game speed and buy-in. While the feedback here is valued, it's important that PokerStars take the time to review the thoughts of an unbiased sample of players prior to considering structure changes.

Thanks for taking the time to express your thoughts on the Fifty50 structure.
If 50/50's replace DON's - please don't butcher the 10 minute blinds! Quote
02-18-2011 , 08:15 PM
Thank you very much for your response. The fact remains (even if there is, with all respect, a hyper smart way of arguing that the difference is ceteris paribus negligible) the 50/50's structure is still faster than the DON's.

I appreciate that you gathered a select team of regulars and presumably maths minded experts to analyse your structures and they all deduced that despite their changing at 6 minute intervals, the difference between the old ten minute structure of the DON's, and the newer 6 minute structure is, as I understand from your post above, too small to be bothered about.

However, given that *most* people are not maths whizz kids, time will perhaps tell whether a sizeable number of people who prefer deeper structures (as they understand 'deeper structures' to be) will, in their minds see "6 minute blinds" and think no further than "oh, that's a turbo", and then play other games instead.
If 50/50's replace DON's - please don't butcher the 10 minute blinds! Quote
02-18-2011 , 09:44 PM
You make a valid, point, it doesnt really matter if the structure is similar if there is the PERCEPTION that the structure is much faster, especially vs the higher rake in the turbos.
If 50/50's replace DON's - please don't butcher the 10 minute blinds! Quote
02-18-2011 , 10:31 PM
Thank you cdog Exactly.
If 50/50's replace DON's - please don't butcher the 10 minute blinds! Quote

      
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