No they weren't. It was this:

If an unreliable source relays information from a very reliable source, how reliable is the information?

What about spadebidder?

it has everything to do with online poker, phil gordon notice i didnt capitalize a crooks name, said himself, using the hole card cam is the only way he can do "analisis" then eric lindgren says "yeah or you could just wait for the cards to be turned up" you can guess what was said next...or just rewatch the video nice try epic failure. if you like i can relink you to it?

There you go.

Or are you two one and the same?

We're not one and the same. And I don't know.

I can hear what you're thinking,
All your doubts and fears,
And if you look in my eyes, in time you'll find,
The reason I'm here.

And in time all things shall pass away,
In time, you may come back someday.
To live once more, or die once more,
But in time, your time will be no more.
now i feel like wiki going off topic

You know your days are numbered,
Count them one by one,
Like notches in the handle of an outlaw's gun.
You can outrun the devil, if you try,
But you'll never outrun the hands of time.

They're messing with each other.


If anybody could see everyone's cards online you think they would talk about it on TV?


They're clearly messing with each other and you can see everybody around the table smiling and laughing a bit at the little confrontation. It's pretty clear given Gordon's history as a poker announcer and him constantly analyzing hands as that announcer with the benefit of using the hole card cam to see all the cards.



BTW Phil Gordon's screen name on Full Tilt is Phil Gordon. According to PTR he hasn't played too much. Last played on April 4th.

it was eric telling him to shut up (him being phil gordon) because eric sucks at no limit hold em compared to patrik..and phil (phil being phil gordon) was rubbing it in his face that he played that hand so badly, buddy im just a modernday cowboy that believes in the code of the wild west

I kinda like that song too. They played that in The Punisher.

Thanks ... I think I might add that to my ITunes.

i think you should, you will probably hear it as a ring tone on a cell one day too. as i stated before ofc phil gordon doesnt use it under the name phil gordon i can hear what you're thinking

Have you verified that this actually works OP? If not, I say that you're a very gullible person.

I agree that name calling and ad hominem attacks do little other than to fuel emotions and inevitably leads to 10 posts discussing the name calling. There is plenty of room for jabs in these threads but I wish people would at least TRY to be creative. Much better to use wit than lame insults - this includes just throwing out "shill" every post.

However: that's what people don't get: many people, myself included, enjoy the challenge of trying to get through to people who are not using logic properly. The ability to craft proper arguments is incredibly useful and participating in these types of discussions can keep one's argument skills fresh - or not. Others ITT derive a substantial portion of their income from online poker and don't like to see the potential fish be chased away by threads like this. You don't need to go to "shills" to find people willing to continue to reply to these people. I do it less now, and try to ignore the pure trolls (like BS), but still derive satisfaction when I do. You are correct that the poker sites would no doubt love for the non-riggies to stop posting in this thread entirely and hope that it dies out. Which is why the accusation of "shill" is so laughable. Many people (such as myself) are in front of a computer all day long, so checking on our subscribed 2+2 threads are a welcome distraction from work.



Sounds like you have this all figured out. So why not take advantage? When you only have 3 outs, time to jam the pot = profit! Why complain when you have a surefire way of milking the system?

They aren't that hard to pick out. The choice is yours, of course. If you want to see some very detailed arguments then skim the thread. If you don't, then don't. But don't think that just because posters like Spadebidder, Josem, QPW, Pyromantha, and others are not posting detailed responses to you are tacit acknowledgement that your allegations are correct. They have just gotten tired of posting the same arguments over and over.

This is the only logical response to a poster who you can't stand. Ignore them.

Oh, meant to flag one more: its been mentioned before but saying: can you prove online poker is NOT rigged, or can you prove there aren't 50% bots out there is a logical fallacy. It's like saying, prove to me you haven't cheated on your spouse: impossible to do. Best we can do is look at what evidence IS out there. Anything else is paranoia.


Finally, before going into another rant on the state of regulation can anyone explain the relevance to this thread other than perhaps saying that if regulations aren't tight, then it might be easier for sites to rig? This still says NOTHING about whether the sites are actually rigged. This is a big red herring for this thread. That is not to say that its not a legit topic, but there is a whole forum dedicated to that topic: why not bring the discussion there, where it belongs? Talk about trying to bury the thread!

Yea that's pretty much correct.

But that has nothing to do with online poker.



-Eric loses a hand to PA. PA showed 6c5c on a Th4dTd 5h Kh board after calling and Eric mucks.

-Phil Gordon makes some comments. Phil Gordon says he put Eric on a flush draw

-Eric gets annoyed and takes shot at Phil Gordon. Specifically he says Phil is an idiot and nobody cares what he thinks. Also he lies and says he has air (He did have a flush draw)

-Phil Gordon decides he doesn't like being called an idiot.

-Eric takes a few more shots at Gordon by calling it an idiotic comment and throwing in he knows Phil is used to looking at the hole card camera. (Referring to the fact that Phil Gordon has often been an announcer and often engaged in analysis on those shows while being able to see all of the cards.)

-At this point Phil decides to let it go and tries some self-depreciating humor: The only way he can do analysis is with the hole card camera

-Eric is not ready to let it go: Says well apparently you can do it now ... you just wait till we flip it up. (Referring to Phil analyzing the hand that just happened after the showdown where PA showed the 5's and Eric mucked.

-Phil says It's a lot easier when you know what the hole cards are (He's trying to get out of this confrontation and not escalate it.)

-Eric: Apparently you always know. (He's not letting it go. He's still on Phil about the comments he made after the hand that PA beat Eric at.)

-Phil Ivey may want some cocktails.

-Phil Gordon wants one of whatever Ivey gets.


-END CLIP




Nothing in it has anything to do with online poker.

you are very simpled minded but you are entitled to your own opinion. geee i wonder what eric lindgren ment when he said hole card cam....i wonder what phil gordon ment when he said he does infact USE the hole card cam for once again what he calls "analisis" im sure thats what pot ripper used it for too

Sigh: Spadebidder doesn't get updated HHs. He has a database for a specific time period. I don't believe he has O8 hands. But you know all this.

They probably meant the hole card cam. You know that thing they use to capture the hands so they can put them on TV. It's a camera that records the hole cards for later broadcast. It's ridiculous to think that conversation had anything to do with online poker. I don't know how paranoid a person has to be to think that it does.

Gordon's exact words are: "That's the only way I can do analysis." It's clearly self depreciating humor that at this point is designed to try to get him out of this confrontation without turning it into a mess.



Really ... you think somebody who cheats online like that would say it on TV while two part owners of the site sit there ...... and the two part owners of the site will just smile and laugh?



Plus it's just super clear Eric was making fun of Gordon and at that point Gordon went along with it and tried to defuse the situation because he didn't want to get into a fight.

What? He meant exactly what he said: "hole card cam". Hole card cams are used for televised poker tournaments and let the viewer see the hole cards. This has nothing to do with online poker. Phil Gordon often commentates and uses these hole card cams to analyze the play while doing color on television.

What are you confused about here exactly?

ohhh suuure they ment the hole card cam on tv!!! even tho phil gordon has nothing to do with the broadcasting of PAD and he was sitting at the table playing. its very clear if you are capable of reading inbetween the lines, most live poker players make a living out of reading whats bull**** and whats not..you have to be one of the worst live poker players to have ever played the game.

the above post also applies to you.

Are you leveling here? Do you watch poker on TV? The hole card cam is basically responsible for the poker boom, along with Chris Moneymaker. It is a pretty well known term. Phil Gordon is a well-known poker commentator. Whatever else do you think he means by "hole card cam?" Do you find it odd that despite many many many people having seen this on tv and on youtube (I recall seeing it when it came out) that you seem to be the only one who has picked up on this "revelation" by Lindgren about PG's apparent superusing?

Edit: your last post would suggest you are leveling: but I'm not sure I get it.

chris moneymaker is responsible for the poker boom and only chris moneymaker, when hellmuth won it in 89 they had hole card cams genius yet there was no huge poker boom for how many years later??? do the math buddy..also dont put me in the same context as you, i could careless about my "level" of post counts.

That's what a hole card cam is. Here is a helpful link: http://pokerterms.com/hole-cam.html Phil Gordon does lots of commentating, not sure why you insist it has to be on PAD.

Have you missed that I have said repeatedly that Phil Gordon is a mainstay in poker announcing and frequently analyzes hands on television with the benefit of the hole card cam?

It's pretty clear that, that is what is being referenced. And it was being referenced because Eric did not like how Gordon analyzed the hand after the cards were flipped up (I'm guessing mostly because Eric lost, the way he lost everyone knows he didn't have much of a hand, and he appears to be steaming a bit).



And it is irrelevant but live poker is easy to beat. The players are generally pretty terrible. I have no problem with it the few times I take trips to A.C. and play some poker there.