I'm not trolling here:

Please stop playing poker (at least temporarily). I would encourage you to share your thoughts and feelings with a mental health care professional.

Because you play nano stakes and don't give a **** about losing $10, you can't really understand where people are coming from with these accusations/allegations about online poker

Try playing at the higher stakes, put in the volume, join study groups, get educational material and develop a strategy then go play 100k hands or so and you will see that you will be winning for a while and then nothing will be going right, the winning strategy will go on a massive downswing, this is why so many said something is not right

On top of that, please understand that you're dealing with a computer program, and the software HAS to use algorithms, because there's no source code you can't verify what's really going on, how the so called RNG works, totally different than seeing a real life deck being shuffled

Also, why do you keep hanging around this thread? If you're convinced there's no evidence whatsoever and everything is legit... are you here to defend online poker or what are you waiting for eventually to happen?

I "hang around" this thread because it is highly entertaining. As I've said before, any legitimate rigging theory would find its way into its own thread and would be taken seriously. This is a de facto "let's mock riggies" thread.

No one with any sense should play on a site that they don't believe is legitimate.

I am a "riggie agnostic." I'm open to the possibility that there is a rigged site out there somewhere. Remember: "The answer is out there...."

agreed bro, im a 15 year pro, i have played on legit sites where the shuffle is correct and won hundreds of thousands, i cant win at online poker anymore, i get it in good time and time and time again and i cant win, and when you play anything above the micros like i do, it starts to get devastating and you cant afford to play poker anymore, i think thats what they are trying to do, keep the crappy players playing and get the good players to go broke and quit, helps their bottom line, sometime is amiss i know lots of pros who have quit online poker and just play live now, somethings fked and we need new legit sites with a real reputable shuffle

absolutely no amount of compling hands and proof will convince anyone until they actually go thru it themselves, theres riggie accounts that are rigged to lose, this im convinced of, its just a luck of the draw apparently, or they just mark you as "make this player lose in the algo" its the only freaking thing i can think of , otherwise it makes no sense.

Nah, you just like whining. If you had actual verifiable evidence then that would be taken seriously. You have none, even though you play on a network which allows you to save every hand you play, so proving the rig would be easy, if true. You saying there is no point to prove anything is not evidence, its just you making an excuse, one seen many times before to try to distract from the reality that you have zero evidence.

You say you do not beat the games any more. The game has clearly passed you by. You have the emotional discipline of a poorly behaved 2 year-old and you do not even have the courage to post your whiny boring beats in the actual bad beat forum. Dude, time for you to quit this and move on with your life in some way. Had you listened to my advice before about quitting you would have lost less, and the same applies now. When you keep playing and whining about losing - all you had to do to avoid that was quit. You say you were a winner 15 years ago. I got news for you - the games in 2021 are not the same as 2006, and your age now is not the new age-15 you were then. Father Time is undefeated, and it is over for you in this industry, in which you clearly cannot keep up nor adapt. Move on.

You can say I am "defending the sites" if that makes you feel better, but this has nothing to do with the sites. It is about you. You cannot compete. You will lose. Your choice to continue on that journey or not, and your constant whining about it does not change that. With all that said, better luck at those micro/nano games if you keep playing.

All the best.

Not sure if I fully agree here Monty. I mean I obviously dont think poker sites are rigged I am not going to jump on that bandwagon.

Just when I returned to poker after having not played for a long time I was barely breaking even The game clearly had either passed me by or I had declined in my game or most likely both.

I could have said that the Game has passed me by and given up and walked away. However I worked on my game I researched spots and I also saved some of my winnings to pay for a few hours of coaching and now I am a comfortable winner again.

I think that once you find something hard or you cant do it anymore right now does not mean you need to give up it, it just means you need more work. I think almost anyone could become a profitable poker player with the right work rate and research/study.

Do you see literally anything in any of that guy's whine posts to indicate he will take responsibility for his failure and recognize either he is a has been or has to put in proper effort to win again? He is a standard outdated tilty bad beat whiner, and that is not a group that tends to hunker down and work properly on their game to stay competitive. He takes the easy button excuse of thinking a site has him as a target to lose at 25NL, because his losing a few hundo is what makes the world matter or something.

Congrats to you putting forth the effort to improve and stay competitive, but this dude will never do that, and in fact he basically believes that all the effort you put in is meaningless as it is all based on whether the site rewards you or not. He will assume he is still a great player without doing the type of work you detail, or he will say the sites rig it against him - because reasons.

lol, first of all , the game hasnt passed me by, someone who crushed 600 and 1k nl isnt gonna fall THAT far behind to the lower limits EVER. on top of that, i have an elite RIO account and i study at least 10 hours a week, i play at par or close to par with some of the top players of zoom pokertars, now, i actually won 5 all ins today in a row where i was ahead, so thats the start of something, for now i dont have anything to whine about, if i had lost all 5 like usual i would be on here whining about it

looks like run it twice has been a net positive for me, usuauly run it once i lose 100% now im winning close to 80% (so far in rrun it twice when ahead)

theres no way to improve a all in EV GRAPH thats supposed to be positive and is super negative guy

I will begin a stars is rigged twitch stream in a few months, just need to improve hu to the point where I make no absolutely no mistakes, I'll stream daily for 20 years every day if I have to, I'll bury that ***** cold deck crook company for the whole world to see, hand by hand, graphs and commentary and all.

this is what some douchebag csa told me when I told him to take my cold deck off and give me a fair shuffle.

'What we can say is that over an infinite number of hands, both your actual winnings and expected winnings should be equal at point-infinity.

Thank you for playing on our site and please let us know if we may assist you with anything else'

yeah, no, 100k coinflips, the result will be 50:50, not getting your ass kicked when you're 3:1 favorite in most of them but they won't commit to say anything legally of course because they're a bunch of scammers on some unregulated island with a ceo who had to step down because he was going to jail.

If Online Poker today wasn't rigged then it would be 10x more popular than 10-15 years ago, the fact it's not, especially during the pandemic says a lot. Of course, then Americans weren't protected as they are now, but they still have access to networks, and that access continues to grow.

There is profit to be made, but because of the rigging + rake that profit is minimal if one is playing at low stakes, and surely not affordable if you're living in a developed country. Stay away from GG Network and Party Poker, because you won't be earning there thousands per month unless you risk $50+ per table.

This should make top 10 most ridiculous statements in this thread, and that's saying a lot.

Congrats on your unverified success at the tables before Obama was President, but the reality is how you did in 2007 has little to do with how you will fare today, especially when you present yourself as a whiny, tilty donk.


Know what the top players don't do? They do not look at a handful of all-ins as the start or end of anything. They are just part of the grind. They also do not need to whine over standard beats like you do. You are not a top player. You are not close to a top player.

Maybe add a ritual dance when doing it as well if you are going to play based on essentially superstition. Why not have a little more fun with it?

As I said, feel free to post your detailed, verifiable data in the stats forum and ask for opinions. I suggest that knowing there is zero chance you will ever present any data, and you will simply continue to use this thread as your bad beat whine blog until they ban you, and after you are banned you will create another account to do the same. That is your destiny, but as you move toward that - better luck at the nano/micro games you play.

All the best.

So are you the smartest human that ever lived? or some sort of ai cyborg?

There are 52C2=1326 pre flop permutations of poker hands. on the flop there are 50C3=19600 potential different flops. which leads to 19600*1326 decisions on the flop which is 25,989,600 different scenarios to navigate for flops. now when the turn comes there will be 47 more permutations to take into account so 25,989,600*47=1,221,511,200 now for river there will be 46 more permutations so 56,189,515,200 poker spots.

you must have an amazing ability to learn all those spots so exactly. especially since there 60 seconds in a minute 3600 seconds in an hour and 86400 seconds in a day. factoring in that a year is 365.25 days that means there are 31,557,600 seconds in a year. so in 100 years there would be 3,155,760,000
which would mean if you spend 100 years without sleep every second learning poker spots you would need to learn 17.81 points of data a second.

You will never play perfect poker no one will ever play perfect poker unless they cheat and use a very sophisticated bot/solver. Every single time I play poker for any significant period of time I make tons of huge mistakes, this applies to absolutely everyone who plays poker. it is impossible to play perfect poker without mistakes. Just the players that make money from the game make less mistakes then the average person/ less mistakes then whom they are playing against.

you are clearly only showing how delusional you are if you truly ever think you will manage to play poker with absolutely no mistakes.

Nitpick: your figures were combinations, not permutation.

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that's nice, but unless you've counted from 1 to 3,155,760,000 and memorized all the numbers in between (which would mean you spend 100 years without sleep every second learning) you cant really have an understanding of 3,155,760,000. i think you are just a poser.

chill out ocpd, nearly no mistakes, is that better? hu poker is played between humans, like chess, human minds, it's a game of exploitation, the stockfish math stuff is nonsense, or else Sklansky would be a lot richer than he is. I sure make less mistakes than my opponents,

The stream will speak for itself, run below ev every single day for 5 years = scam

There's only so many over pair vs underpair and ak vs a6 that can happen over and over again before stars gets exposed, I made good investments, I'm retired, I got time, and I hold a grudge.

I'll keep the stream going a long time and keep the vods up, every hand from the start of the stream until the end, years, all graphs displayed, I'll punish their brand, variance has a limit, it's not the point of infinity nonsense they spew out, that's legalese so they don't get class actioned by people who actually want to check the integrity of their shuffle.

Ever notice how all the twitch streamers with the most viewers bink the most tournaments playing abc poker doing absolutely nothing special, you think that's legit?

People are so naive, if something can be rigged, it will be rigged, boxing, baseball, mma, basketball drafts, poker.

I'll show an entertaining stream, the real stars.

And yet, he keeps on playing.

LOL.

There's 100s of millions of dollars at stake in most industries and easy ways to skew results, but yeah, feel free to trust David Stern was on the up and up, and so are his seedier poker equivalents on their various islands, why would anything ever be manipulated for financial gains? impossible!

I could have written that response for you, although I would have been guessing at what specifics you would use. You of course make the same incorrect assumption so many of your fellow riggies make - finding the idea that everything is rigged to be silly is not remotely close to believing nothing could ever be rigged.

few points no you wont get to the point where you make almost no mistakes because no one is at the point where they make almost no mistakes.
There is no point in talking to me about heads up poker like it is some opaque mysterious version of poker with mystic like qualities. I have experience of heads up poker. I have played a lot of heads up hypers. (my deepstack heads up game definitely needs work should try find some training material on that somewhere lost a few mtts coming 2nd because deep stack game no good)

from experience of these a few points come to mind firstly the variance is brutal and considering you need to win an all in to win the match when your all in ev is running significantly bad it hurts. I have made a few grand from heads up hypers and would be capable of making a living from these solely but have recently found me moving much more to small field mtts and just doing these as a side piece because the variance is huge.

I used to be a riggy like you I am embarrassed to admit a long long time ago back in 2010 or was it 2009 there is a chance I could have been engaging monty from the other side of the fence back then.

I used to imagine getting pros to play on my account with side bets they couldnt turn a profit and then they shocked when they cant. I never actually did this obviously. I then did the research and got good enough to be profitable and stopped been a riggy.

Why are you playing on stars for heads up games anyway it makes no sense unless your literally one of the best in the world which you clearly are not no offence.

the standard on stars is higher then anywhere else the rake is not competitive and the promotions/rakeback is worse then most places. I have legit found the $3 games on stars have been tougher then the $10 and $20 games elsewhere. regardless of how good you are why not play the same standard for more money elsewhere if your profitable or a lower standard for the same money if your not?

you are literally playing one of the highest variants of poker on the toughest site for what reason? why put yourself through that in retirement age if you dont need the money? maybe you have a gambling problem? in which case maybe you should stop for a while?

I am currently pursuing a Math and statistics degree for most specific rig theories the statistics needed to prove these wrong or correct is not hard.
However how could one be advanced enough to prove there definitively is no rig of any kind I cant do that I am not advanced enough in statistics to.

there are a lot of people playing online poker no poker site could perform an obvious rig without been spotted and exposed already. potentially one could do some very advanced rig which is very sophisticated which may be very hard to spot. However why what would the point be they would need to spend lots of money on very expensive wages and software to get the team and resources needed take huge risks that the rig could be spotted which would be financial ruin if exposed. for what gain?

the only thing I can think of is reduce play edges and thus lead to more total rake taken. They could just follow GGs model and go for nonsense excuses to ban winning players, if their was one site that would ever be rigged it would most likely be GG poker. To be absolutely clear I am not claiming GG poker is rigged I have never played there so have nothing to comment on that I would still be very surprised if a rig was exposed there, just if a rig was ever exposed anywhere I guess GG to be the favourites to be the ones.

poker sites have so much at their disposal to change the game variants to change the rake structure and to find silly reasons to ban players I dont see the need for a rig.

most poker sites are owned by Billion pound companies even if you did somehow breakdown and spot a sophisticated rig you would have a very hard time getting round magic circle lawyers. (magic circle lawyers is a business term I have heard around which basically means very good top of the game lawyers who are very expensive and can find almost any loopholes it is not lawyers who have magical supernatural powers I would think this would be obvious but you seem deluded enough for me to make sure I clarify this.)

So in short why put yourself through the hardest site playing one of the highest variances in poker to prove a point which you will very likely never be able to prove even if you were right which your highly likely not, when even if you were right and did manage to prove you would likely not get past their very expensive lawyers yourself?

it just seems like massive stress and continued mental harm to yourself for no fruit why do this to yourself in retirement age? why not sit back have a beer and chill?

Also there are plenty of injustices in the world. for example the housing market in my country still keeps going up. despite us been in one of the worst recessions ever. Why because government and big business actually do rig that market and many people cant even afford to live because they got to protect the rich. that is a much bigger rig to worry about. What about all the people starving to death in the world literally or living in abject poverty because of big market rigs? what about the rigging and cheating that goes on on wallstreet gamestop comes to mind.

there are much bigger causes you could fight for.

hu sng at decent enough stakes $15-30+ (I'm not exactly good enough to take on Grindation at 5k) at slowest (normal) speed so that your opponents will be good and thinking is supposed to be the purest form of poker there is.

There's time to develop a signature of your opponent, very slight pressure from the time limit for people to make moves instead of waiting for coolers like hu cash, so ideally you whittle down your opponents stack with one or more forms of the actual insightful skills in poker, bluffing, catching bluffs, calling light, value betting, then when they're low you go all in and if you're a 3:1 favorite you should win.

This is when stars puts the screws to you, I understand the variance in hypers, I don't play hypers, or even turbos, my graphs on those still look like alligator jaws so they're rigged too but not fun because they are catch one pair on the flop shove fests, but even the normals are rigged, so I'm simply going to prove that,

I'm a little crazy and I don't like being cheated and gaslit with a smiling disingenous 'we understand bad beats are not fun but there's more to poker than ev' have a nice day emails. my red line couldn't be higher, that's why I'm able to not lose so much despite the rig.

you can't prove the statistics about their shuffle even if you are a math genius because they use the point of infinity as company policy reference for variance, which is not a normal statistical measure for variance, that's why they can't be sued.

the stream will hurt them if I'm clearly crushing and losing and losing every day and has viewers and becomes a place for the disgruntled, that's a battle worth fighting.

Also I'm not that old, just was fortunate with some things, I need something to do, I was going to twitch stream some form of gaming, but this will be more fun.

Also I don't believe in bum hunting, it's slimey and unethical, only in poker is this considered ok behavior, the best should play the best, Grandmasters don't play bums, nor does LeBron James, Stars has the best players in the world, that's how you improve.

This is nonsense. Anyone with a decent amount of hand histories and basic statistical skill can show whether their hands fit a normal distribution or not. The problem is most riggies have zero knowledge of how to check this.

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what number of all ins at or above 36-75% equity before river is required to be 50:50? when is it supposed to even out?

how many flips, you tell me the number, I'll get you the graph.

poker stars says this occurs only at 'point infinity', sounds like a bad sci fi novel.

This is where you're wrong, I think. Unless you're winning and providing verbal entertainment no one is going to bother watching you. Your particular type of audience, if you even have one, would rather play, lose and whine, themselves, than watch another loser. In fact, most of them will see sense and give up playing altogether, when they find it's not an easy game to beat, these days, without a lot of off-table work and many tedious hours spent on-table.