Real groundbreaking stuff in that wall of text.

Translation:

I drunkenly rage-spewed several stacks and now I think it's rigged.

This whole discussion is a giant wall of text.

Nothing is groundbreaking in a 5079-pages long thread, especially if you have followed it since the start. I have not, so the groundbreaking material have to come from you. You are therefor welcome to discuss the subject with me instead of undermining me with poor sarcasm.

I would love to find some valid reasons to keep spending time on online-poker. I am really running out of them as we speak.

Translation:

"I drunkenly spew sarcastic and childish comments to everyone who disagree with me, combined with putting thoughts and actions in their heads, and therefor I am always right and the king of anonymous internet-forums".

Dear god, this place seems to have the same quality as online-poker.

Time for another experiment, I guess.

Posting proof of your claim that big stacks win far too often would be ground breaking.

But you wont do that because ...

Maybe. You seem to have outplayed your role in here...

Because I can't copy and paste 100.000 hands into this thread. I do not have access to other players hand-history either. What would be enough proof for you? Two million hands in front of you?

My experience and observations over five years tell me that this occurs over and over in tournaments online. I am far from being the only one that has noticed this. Endless chip-leaders have commented this in the poker-chat during the tournament, saying that this is not normal and that it seems like they cant lose against smaller stacks. I have been the largest stack myself countless times, and seen how the cards just fall in my favor at all times. Have you never noticed this? Is this brand new information to you?

Did you read the link about iPoker? Does it matter to you? If not, why?

If only there were a way to upload files to places on the internet where they could be downloaded by others.

Until some tech genius invents such an unlikely thing it seems like the evil overlords of poker rigging are safe and untouchable.

You're convinced it is happening based on the hands you've seen whilst playing so you only need your own hand histories, not others.

I assume you can run the hands through Pokertracker and use filters to count the hands for you. You can put them all in a zip file and upload them rather than posting them all into the thread too.

If I "knew" that this was happening, I would go through it manually if I had to. I would also make sure that I gambled early in every tournament I played.

When I'm getting lucky I "feel" lucky and remember it, yes. When I'm getting unlucky it feels like I can't win a hand and I remember it. So do you. I don't make up some wild statistic from my memory of these events though.

Yes, I also read the conclusion, did you? I don't play on iPoker so it doesn't really matter to me unless somebody posts something interesting.

Testing a sample of hand histories for big stacks winning all-ins at a rate abnormally higher than their equity is trivially easy to check.

So do the test and share it, and stop relying on your perceptions. Otherwise posting such claims is meaningless. You also have a very flawed perception of the opinion of the larger poker community, because people tend to think that others think like they do. In reality the people who don't trust the poker site they play on (and yet keep doing it) is a small minority. Even in a thread by riggies for riggies, many of whom have multiple identities, they can only garner a third in a rigged poll. And a very small fraction of 2+2 posters have even voted.

Like I said in my first post. You see this when others play against the largest stacks. Others hands counts for more hands all together than only my own hands.

So, Pokertracker can find a pattern from the size of peoples stacks?

It seems that players do exactly that. They bet like crazy to get there stack up and running. Many have said that the reason they play like that is simply because the have experienced that more chips, means better hands. Not my kind of poker, either way.

Even if you have found this solution, it would still not change that its not random. Going around the problem does not solve it. Winning a lot in the beginning is either something that happens just because you want it to.

Did you not read what I wrote? When I'm winning, I am more aware of this than ever, simply because I can't lose. Even the hands I fold would have won in the most ridiculous way. This "confirmation bias"/memory-thing is getting old. Its not my memory. Its right in front of me every time I play a tournament online. I also notice when the smallest stacks win against the largest. Like I said, the largest stack seems to win roughly 80%.

Yes, I have read it. Are you not satisfied with the test, like most "pro online" never are?


Please, tell me how.

Its more likely the other way around. In reality, people who are addicted to gambling, do either not care or they get more addicted the more they lose. Addicts main goal, is to "beat the system". The worse odds they have, the better. Addicts do not play to win.

P.s: Nice of you to change your "Otherwise STFU" to "Otherwise posting such claims is meaningless".

There seems to be an ever increasing number of posters who join just to post in this thread.

I wonder how many actual puppet masters control them.

[This thread is rigged.]

The only thing "rigged" in this thread is the mindset of the childish majority, like yourself, that have noting else to contribute with than immature comments and boring sarcasm.

I could easily call you clueless, addicted and blind for not seeing how unrealistic online poker is, but what good would that do? First of all, you would have to know what poker is outside the internet. Many poker-players online does not seem to know that. They have hardly ever played with a real deck of cards, which sadly is the necessary basis for all suspicion that online-poker is not random play.

I have seen more nonsense in one night online, than I have seen in 20 years offline.

I really want to believe that online poker is fair. It is easy to play online and I love poker. I have therefor asked every online-site several times for proof that this is fair play. NEVER have they given me anything remotely close to evidence. "They can not reveal their methods". Riiiiight... Its a national secret how they check if a virtual deck is shuffled.

The poker-sites make the claim that this is "random". I dont believe them, but they will not tell me how they test the software. Why does no one ask the poker-sites for proof of the claim they give their clients? Why do you "believers" trust these people that sell forward a product from "software-companies" that run their business and handle your money from an island where no law can touch them?

Those who don't believe their empty claims are supposed to be the "rigtards", in other words ******ed. Could it be more backwards? Dear lord...

I played poker with real cards on Wednesday night. In the first 15 hands I showed down 2 full houses, quads, and flopped the nut flush (but got no action ). I suspect some kind of a rig.

you tell me, you work for pokerstars

No really, you do. I know exactly who you are. Remember, it's a small world I can use first names if you'd like. I won't go there.....for now

Not only are you not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I doubt that you're even a knife.

Well, looky, looky, looky; yet another 'tard who joined (today) just to post on this thread.

How many accounts is that now?

All that big talk about the rig and you can't even figure that out? Burt was right all along.

Then stop playing, seems pretty straightforward. If you're smart enough to detect a rig just by playing hands passively and without using software to analyze them, you'd think you'd be smart enough to quit playing when you think you're being ripped off.

Just one, the mighty riggie overlord himself. None other than Satan's right-hand man.

Lets hear it for.

If we were to ban every person in this thread who was "insulting people big time", there wouldn't be much of a thread left. For better or worse, this thread is fairly lightly modded, especially in terms of banter/arguments/insults.

Also, linking to search results doesn't work.

I did, back when it was first posted here at least a couple of years ago. I'm wondering if you did, since you seem to be presenting it as evidence, all on its own, of rigging. The site actually says that rigging is unlikely to have been the cause of the results - they suggest widespread collusion during that point in time, likely involving bots. FWIW, back in that time frame (and for a year or two on either side), there were many threads on our forums about iPoker being very poor at shutting down bots.

I expect so. If you genuinely want to investigate this, you might find some help with it here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...hread-1052323/

I understand why this would be getting old to those who have convinced themselves that online poker is rigged. But it really can't be understated how prevalent this phenomenon is in so many aspects of life. Our minds are terrible at distinguishing patterns from randomness.

As far as it being your memory, since you've obviously not done any proper analysis of your data, how can you possibly know this?

Actually, you don't. Relying on what you think both live and online poker "look like" to determine if it's rigged is simply relying on the human mind's poor ability to do so. Unlike in live poker, in online poker you can test the data and determine if it is rigged.

That aside, I'd suggest that the vast majority of regular online poker players have also played live poker, to varying degrees of course.

What would constitute evidence for you? How do they prove the negative?

As an example of the problem with trying to provide evidence that online poker isn't rigged, let's go back to that site you linked earlier. Obviously you think the site it legitimate, as you're using them as a source. They claim to have tested 6 million poker hands, at 7 different sites, and 6 of them passed all the tests. Yet we have had people claiming, at one time or another, that all of those sites are also rigged. If a 6 million hand test by an independent website isn't enough to convince them, what would be?

For every rigged theory a site could disprove, you could come up with 10 more. It's an endless, and pointless, exercise. If you think it's rigged, investigate your own claims and determine if they're legitimate. If you don't want to/aren't able to, either stop playing there, or continue to do so at your own "risk".

As for why people believe the online poker sites - many of them don't need to. They have their own data which they believe shows the sites they're playing on to be legitimate. Until you show them data that proves otherwise, they're going to be unconvinced.

2009 called, they want their rant back.

@ LiamH, solid post bro. Everyone that has played online poker has experience what you wrote for the most part. These trolls attacking you are industry shills and are really not worth arguing with. They have been spamming this thread since its beginning.
Theyre basically banning people that post here that believe it's rigged. And letting these shilltrolls clutter up the thread to make it not readable. Good post though bro.

The fact that you just made this post disproves your theorem. I assume that won't impede you though.

It's true. Even previous "player" meetings were sabotaged by a mod here disrupting the voting process, intervening his own opinion and way he thought voting should go than he ran away on vacation for two weeks, so he says.

This is a very heavily monitored, forum where there is no freedom of speech, just a small collection of poker industry lifers trying hard to keep there industry from looking any more corrupt, shady and despicable than it already does. I made a thread to try and hold a site accountable for the terrible software/connections they are providing to their customers as I had been experiencing the same things for almost a year and get shady responses. Its not acceptable and shouldn't be acceptable.

Players need a full proper audit. Look at the videos put out and everyone looks like someone you would call the police on if they knocked at your door. Pics of the family strategically placed for camera view. Do they think we are auditors need to be fooled. Like I have always said every site is shady, some have had more money to cover it up. Part of covering it up is hiring people to spam these threads. it's part of their job. No really

Job Responsibilities:

The person in this job is essentially second-in-command in the poker room management team, reporting to the poker room manager. This person's responsibilities include:
Participating in management of the day-to-day poker operations for PokerStars
Interaction with players for customer escalations, VIP issues, and game security concerns
Reviewing and recommending changes to game and tournament offerings, and software client features
Hosting final tables for important tournaments such as the Sunday Million and WCOOP
Interacting with major poker forums such as 2+2, Pocket Fives, and RGP





So yes, the people posting in this thread are either Poker room managers or report directly to them. The same managers that no doubt are part of the "elite" that get a thumb accessed room to make player account changes, the same ones that made them on me while I was playing. Oops.

Was Pokerstars not able to "previously" capture real time screen shots as part of a security measure to "catch cheating"? Thus enabling them to see your screen but that said they stopped that as it breached a player privacy. This is a question. "were" they able to. And if so with the sophistication of cheating methods and the so called "state of the art" cheating prevention methods you think they stopped? OR stopped advertising that ability?