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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
Voters: 9860. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-04-2009, 07:20 PM   #7376
NFuego20
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
LOL!
You work for Pokerstars
LOL!
I wish! Sadly I don't think us Americans can feasibly gain employment with the major poker sites.
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:23 PM   #7377
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

See how twisted the rigtard mind is? They laugh at the thought of gainful employment.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:07 PM   #7378
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
With approximately 1/3 of the active online players or more believing to some degree that the sites are rigged, wouldnt it be prudent to put this fire out before it becomes a mess like the AP and UB incident became?
Does not compute.

Standard argument in this thread though, to compare what happened at AP/UB to rigged RNGs.

If you know what to do, the all the statistics you need are readily available. The HHs are there to download, and from there all you will need is a stat tracking program to start analyzing the data.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:08 PM   #7379
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
Just as the rigtards believe that OLP is rigged without a shred of evidence so you believe, again, without a shred of evidence, that some of those who argue against OLP being rigged are overall losers.
I forgot to address this. I don't need evidence to make the claim that some of those who argue against OLP being rigged are overall losers. I have the law of averages on my side. Would you be willing to make a bet that NONE of them are losers? If so, I'll take that bet. If not, then you admit that some of them must be, which is what I said.


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You don't have any evidence and even if your belief was true and did have evidence it would be wholly irrelevant. Whether a person is an overall winner or loser has no bearing whatsoever on the logical validity of their argument.
If you haven't seen it, I addressed this in another post. I'm not trying to be difficult, but you seem to want to pick apart everything I say and refute it. I have no problem with this, but so far, you're not doing a very good job of it.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:26 PM   #7380
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by dbcooper279 View Post
Does not compute.

Standard argument in this thread though, to compare what happened at AP/UB to rigged RNGs.

If you know what to do, the all the statistics you need are readily available. The HHs are there to download, and from there all you will need is a stat tracking program to start analyzing the data.
While the comparison to AB/UB doesn't work in favour of the rigtards, it does work in favour of those who feel there should be evidence. It was 2+2rs applying analysis to their handhistories that broke the scandal open. Members of this forum are exactly the type who can - and will most likely - figure out if rigging is going on.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:39 PM   #7381
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by BucketFoot View Post
Online poker is done.
Unless you have a golden account, you will not win.
what happens when the only players left have golden accounts?
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:00 PM   #7382
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you've left lots of evidence that you're not terribly clever. I'm curious as to what your motive is though.

I don't believe that is a credible statistic.
Look at the stats 2+2 has compiled so far. More than 38% who have voted think that it is in fact rigged. This is just a small sample, but people who search out 2+2 are players who are bit more serious than the casual player, so I think there is a good chance that the statistic could be credible. Although this is the Rigged thread, so that could be weighing things more than normal in the rigged direction than usual.

As for the comment about not being terribly clever, it sounds like you are a hired online pokersite troll. You guys seem to use insults instead of being constructive. I have read some of your contributions in the past, they are not too terribly insightful.

As for your curiosity, I am just looking into whether or not online sites are manipulating the programming. I am just now starting to look for information about this so that I can make a determination for myself about whether or not I should use my 149 points of IQ for something more productive. I love poker, but I dont like getting ripped off. I have enough personal experience with online poker to be concerned. I check everything out that I get myself involved in.
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:03 PM   #7383
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I play on stars and I've gotten into the habit of assuming if someone is reraising my pocket pair, they have a higher pocket pair.
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:07 PM   #7384
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Markusgc View Post
what happens when the only players left have golden accounts?
Then Willie The Poker Wonka will have to play poker with his own Umpa Lumpas. My guess is that you are one of the Umpa Lumpa's...
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:12 PM   #7385
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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See how twisted the rigtard mind is? They laugh at the thought of gainful employment.
I am not an official rigtard yet. I am in the very early stages of deciding if I am going to be a Rigged Theorist, Rigged Terrorist...I dont know...something like that...

I have a job, but it has nothing to do with playing with peoples lives, it is about helping them...
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:13 PM   #7386
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Arouet View Post
While the comparison to AB/UB doesn't work in favour of the rigtards, it does work in favour of those who feel there should be evidence. It was 2+2rs applying analysis to their handhistories that broke the scandal open. Members of this forum are exactly the type who can - and will most likely - figure out if rigging is going on.
That is an argument that makes sense to me.
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:18 PM   #7387
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Rob Easy View Post
I play on stars and I've gotten into the habit of assuming if someone is reraising my pocket pair, they have a higher pocket pair.
It is these kinds of statements and personal observations that has me wondering if the sites are in fact set up to bust tournaments down more quickly. If this is the case, I dont want anything to do with them.

I am going to fund a friends account, ask him to play while using a nice software tracking tool. I guess I am going to have to spool through thousands of hand histories...that is going to be hard with a full time job and a full time girlfriend...
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:28 PM   #7388
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

wow we're breaking new ground here people! When you raise with a mediocre holding and get reraised by somebody, a lot of the time they have a better hand than you!

That proves it! I knew something fishy was going on.
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:31 PM   #7389
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
Then Willie The Poker Wonka will have to play poker with his own Umpa Lumpas. My guess is that you are one of the Umpa Lumpa's...
Are Umpa Lumpas like Oompa-Loompas? If so, can I be an Umpa Lumpa? Oompa-Loompas are sweet.
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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I have a job, but it has nothing to do with playing with peoples lives, it is about helping them...
wat
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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I am going to fund a friends account, ask him to play while using a nice software tracking tool. I guess I am going to have to spool through thousands of hand histories...that is going to be hard with a full time job and a full time girlfriend...
wat
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:45 PM   #7390
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I am just wondering outloud why sites like PS and FT just dont make their regulation practices and access to meaningful reports a bit more transparent.
What does this mean?

What would you like them to do for you? Provide something concrete so that it can be considered. Generalist comments about being more "transparent" make for nice rhetoric, but it's not clear what exactly you're asking for.
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:08 PM   #7391
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
Look at the stats 2+2 has compiled so far. More than 38% who have voted think that it is in fact rigged.
It depends exactly what people mean when they say "rigged".

Some of the people who claim it is rigged in this very thread have claimed that Aces come too often. Others say that Aces come not often enough. These folks both pat each other on the back and agree that it is rigged, when they both can't possibly be true.

Of course, the data confirmed that Aces come on the flop just as often as expected.

There are other people in this thread who have used the AP/UB episodes as evidence of online poker being "rigged" even though that's not "rigging" in the context that we're talking about here.

Others may consider that some rigging by some random little site is reason to vote 'yes' - there were threads on here about some random tiny site running bots.

I think it is incredibly unlikely that any significant online poker operator deals cards in a non-random fashion. I think a better question would be:

"Are the cards at major online poker sites shuffled and dealt randomly?"

I suspect you would have a higher proportion of people saying that yes, the cards were dealt randomly. I think that is a fair question, but also much clearer to people voting. I don't think it particularly advantages either "side" in this discussion.
Quote:
This is just a small sample, but people who search out 2+2 are players who are bit more serious than the casual player, so I think there is a good chance that the statistic could be credible. Although this is the Rigged thread, so that could be weighing things more than normal in the rigged direction than usual.
Absolutely this would be the case. There are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of online poker players who are members of 2p2, and the very fact that so many people play online poker is in itself evidence that they trust the operators to not steal their money.

Quote:
As for the comment about not being terribly clever, it sounds like you are a hired online pokersite troll. You guys seem to use insults instead of being constructive. I have read some of your contributions in the past, they are not too terribly insightful.
It's pretty awesome, I think, that the only person (that I know of) who is employed by a poker site in this discussion is actually discussing these issues with you seriously.

Even that rigtard theory is disproved by the obvious evidence in this thread.
Quote:
As for your curiosity, I am just looking into whether or not online sites are manipulating the programming. I am just now starting to look for information about this so that I can make a determination for myself about whether or not I should use my 149 points of IQ for something more productive. I love poker, but I dont like getting ripped off. I have enough personal experience with online poker to be concerned. I check everything out that I get myself involved in.
I think you should check out this stuff. I think you should question the sites that you play at.

After all, you pay rake to use their services, and any service that you use has an obligation to explain stuff to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Easy View Post
I play on stars and I've gotten into the habit of assuming if someone is reraising my pocket pair, they have a higher pocket pair.
I play on a site other than PokerStars, and in different games, that may or may not be true.

I'd strongly encourage you to look at actual data on the 3-betting ranges of your opponents: some of my opponents 3-bet with 2% of their hands, and other's 3-bet with 40% of their hands. It's pretty obvious that some 3-bet only with their big pairs, and some 3-bet with a lot more different hands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I am going to fund a friends account, ask him to play while using a nice software tracking tool. I guess I am going to have to spool through thousands of hand histories...that is going to be hard with a full time job and a full time girlfriend...
Well, post your hand histories up here and get someone to look at the data for you.
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:43 PM   #7392
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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you've left lots of evidence that you're not terribly clever. I'm curious as to what your motive is though.
Thanks kid for the compliment about how I am clever...I'm not terribly clever, than I must be somewhat clever. Ill take that.

My motives you ask, simple. I want people to stop playing online poker, to realize that online poker is not safe for a number of reasons. If you want to disagree about the owners of these sites intentions, or the legitimacy of the RNG, or the speeding up of tournaments and action flops in cash games. Then realize collusion is rampid and easy to do.
I have known poker players living in Vegas, who dont even play in the casinos in Vegas, they have six computers in one room and many different screen names on different sites and collude simply by themselves.
Sad, but, this happens, more than anyone would like to admit, so none the less, if you feel that riggtards are all paranoid losers who suck at poker and are bitter about there own personal shortcomings as a gambler, think about the easy accessibility to cheating online and who all is being cheating and why they are cheating. To play online IMO you have to beat collusion, action flops, rake and on top of it all the US govt who will be enforcing these illegal activities more and more in the very near future.

If the owners of Stars stepped onto US soil, LEAVENWORTH. Enough said.
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:48 PM   #7393
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I might be getting banned for stating my opinion, I have 517 posts, never had an infraction until I started complaining about online poker, actually that's a lie, I had one a long time ago when I first joined the site for arguing.
In any case, I'm not trolling for my own personal satisfaction, trying to peeve off you winning pokerstars. I am legitimately mad, I am frustrated with the owners of stars and their intentions of what they do with raked money payed for by US players. I am mad that for so long I played online and didn't question the integrity of the site cuz DN said it was legit.

If I do get banned, I hope people continue to discuss the legitimacy of poker online being rigged or set up or not being fair or legal.

As long as I am a member on 2+2, I am planning on posting daily about my thoughts, findings and feelings of online poker. So when someone else starts to suspect these online fixed cardrooms and they google rigged online poker, they jump to what I have to say and know that it is possible and might be going on.
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:07 AM   #7394
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by feldzpar View Post
I might be getting banned for stating my opinion, I have 517 posts, never had an infraction until I started complaining about online poker, actually that's a lie, I had one a long time ago when I first joined the site for arguing.
You'd be the first.
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:32 AM   #7395
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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[B] In any case, I'm not trolling for my own personal satisfaction, trying to peeve off you winning pokerstars. I am legitimately mad, I am frustrated with the owners of stars and their intentions of what they do with raked money payed for by US players. I am mad that for so long I played online and didn't question the integrity of the site cuz DN said it was legit.
Are you a crusader against all injustice? Or just online poker?
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:49 AM   #7396
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Are you a crusader against all injustice? Or just online poker?

TBH I'm not really a fan of any injustice, but if someone or something is really unfair or unjust and it is needing attention I feel responsible, as any human should.

Online poker has been a huge part of my life for sometime, I never questioned its legitimacy, ever, wtf, why wouldnt I at least ask the question, is this legit?

After doing minimal research after a few bad sessions and multiple huge hands I saw the overwhelming amounts of information available others have provided about personal experiences with online poker.

My hope is that young men and women who are starting poker do not waste time starting to learn online styles, playing online...it is not real poker. Real poker is not rigged, in real poker its tough to make a pair, in real poker you have to watch your chips shipped to the winner and you get to stack them when you drag a pot. In real poker you get to cash out right away, and no govt will hold your winnings, by playing real live poker you get to become a poker player.

Keeping the money in Las Vegas or in your local casino is crucial, do not pay rake overseas to unknown entities. I never thought about where my rake dollars are going online, I was just listening to pros telling me to play as many hands as possible to become the best I can. Play 12 tables, sure, you will get to be the best, yeah, cough, you play 12 tables so you pay a grand a week in rake.

I just want people to know its an option that online isnt safe, legit, legal, and that it probably or possibly rigged. This is my opinion, and I am entitled to it, make fun of me, sue me, hate me...i dont care too much, i might cry a little, but i have tissues.
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:00 AM   #7397
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
I have a job, but it has nothing to do with playing with peoples lives, it is about helping them...
I believe it is you who is in need of help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
Look at the stats 2+2 has compiled so far. More than 38% who have voted think that it is in fact rigged. This is just a small sample, but people who search out 2+2 are players who are bit more serious than the casual player, so I think there is a good chance that the statistic could be credible. Although this is the Rigged thread, so that could be weighing things more than normal in the rigged direction than usual.
ya think?
Quote:
As for the comment about not being terribly clever, it sounds like you are a hired online pokersite troll. You guys seem to use insults instead of being constructive. I have read some of your contributions in the past, they are not too terribly insightful.
it's unfortunate you weren't clever enough to realize that comment wasn't directed at you. and it's also unfortunate that you have only read the latest responses to the same dumb theories presented without evidence. I tried many, many times to reason with the Rigtard Army (ask my buddy tk), but insane people can't be reasoned with. So yeah, it's just cruel sport picking on y'all. I admit it. But tell ya what, when one of your brethren brings a constructive piece of evidence that doesn't rely on gimmick accounts voting in a Rigtard-Created poll, selective memory, racist conspiracy theories or patterns which no one else can verify I'll be a little more hospitable.
Quote:
As for your curiosity, I am just looking into whether or not online sites are manipulating the programming. I am just now starting to look for information about this so that I can make a determination for myself about whether or not I should use my 149 points of IQ for something more productive
Why don't you look into it quietly, and when you have made a determination report back?

btw, people who have high I.Q.'s are smart enough not to brag about them to strangers on message boards.
Quote:
I love poker, but I dont like getting ripped off. I have enough personal experience with online poker to be concerned. I check everything out that I get myself involved in.
you should consider checking things out before getting involved, dontchya think?
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Originally Posted by DonkoTheClown View Post
It is these kinds of statements and personal observations that has me wondering if the sites are in fact set up to bust tournaments down more quickly. If this is the case, I dont want anything to do with them.
Sites do have a way to make tournaments end faster through programming. However, they're nice enough to label them "Turbo." But just to be safe, you should avoid them all. That way you won't have any reason to bother us any more.
Quote:
I am going to fund a friends account, ask him to play while using a nice software tracking tool. I guess I am going to have to spool through thousands of hand histories...that is going to be hard with a full time job and a full time girlfriend...
epic brags:
  • has a friend
  • has a girlfriend
  • has a job
epic failure:
  • unsolicited brags about them.
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Originally Posted by feldzpar View Post
Thanks kid for the compliment about how I am clever...I'm not terribly clever, than I must be somewhat clever. Ill take that.
beggars/choosers, etc.
Quote:
My motives you ask, simple. I want people to stop playing online poker, to realize that online poker is not safe for a number of reasons.
why do you care what people do with their money?

oh, you don't want Good Americans giving money the the Bad Israelis you allege own Stars, huh?
Quote:
If you want to disagree about the owners of these sites intentions, or the legitimacy of the RNG, or the speeding up of tournaments and action flops in cash games. Then realize collusion is rampid and easy to do.
Is English your primary language?
Quote:
I have known poker players living in Vegas, who dont even play in the casinos in Vegas, they have six computers in one room and many different screen names on different sites and collude simply by themselves.
no you haven't. sounds good though.
Quote:
Sad, but, this happens, more than anyone would like to admit, so none the less, if you feel that riggtards are all paranoid losers who suck at poker and are bitter about there own personal shortcomings as a gambler, think about the easy accessibility to cheating online and who all is being cheating and why they are cheating.
This cheating you seem so intimately familiar with is not the topic being discussed here.
Quote:
To play online IMO you have to beat collusion, action flops, rake and on top of it all the US govt who will be enforcing these illegal activities more and more in the very near future.
wait, I'll have to beat the US Government who will be "enforcing... illegal activities and more" soon too?

Does that mean they'll be making collusion, action flops and (illegal) rake mandatory? What else do they have up their sleeves?

And while your bold text does stand out, it really only helps people find the dumbest posts faster. But thanks for playing along!
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:12 AM   #7398
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by feldzpar View Post
I might be getting banned for stating my opinion, I have 517 posts, never had an infraction until I started complaining about online poker, actually that's a lie, I had one a long time ago when I first joined the site for arguing.
quit being a drama queen. you received a couple of infractions for racist slurs which have no place in the 2+2 Internet Poker Forum. if you get banned then it's because you chose to be another martyr for the cause.
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Originally Posted by feldzpar View Post
After doing minimal research after a few bad sessions and multiple huge hands I saw the overwhelming amounts of information available others have provided about personal experiences with online poker.
minimal research doesn't yield overwhelming amounts of information.
Quote:
My hope is that young men and women who are starting poker do not waste time starting to learn online styles, playing online...it is not real poker. Real poker is not rigged, in real poker its tough to make a pair, in real poker you have to watch your chips shipped to the winner and you get to stack them when you drag a pot. In real poker you get to cash out right away, and no govt will hold your winnings, by playing real live poker you get to become a poker player.
then why post in the Internet Poker Forum, to people who are well-versed in it already? why not troll the Beginner's Forum, and catch 'em while they're young?
Quote:
Keeping the money in Las Vegas or in your local casino is crucial, do not pay rake overseas to unknown entities. I never thought about where my rake dollars are going online, I was just listening to pros telling me to play as many hands as possible to become the best I can. Play 12 tables, sure, you will get to be the best, yeah, cough, you play 12 tables so you pay a grand a week in rake.
there are many, many reasons I prefer to play online. mostly it's to avoid people like you who can't shut up.
Quote:
I just want people to know its an option that online isnt safe, legit, legal, and that it probably or possibly rigged. This is my opinion, and I am entitled to it, make fun of me, sue me, hate me...
you've stated your opinion. nice of you to share. but this thread isn't your blog. I can send you a link to a site where you can create one for free if you like. Just let me know.
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i dont care too much, i might cry a little, but i have issues.
fyp
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:41 AM   #7399
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Is English your primary language?

Pig Latin is actually


Quote:
Quote:
[]I have known poker players living in Vegas, who dont even play in the casinos in Vegas, they have six computers in one room and many different screen names on different sites and collude simply by themselves.
no you haven't. sounds good though.
Yes I have, and dont dispute UNTIL U CAN PROVE IT...sound familiar?


Quote:
This cheating you seem so intimately familiar with is not the topic being discussed here.

Actually I am talking about collusion as one of the reasons to stay away from online poker. But, you do not want to talk about that, cause you know it exists, and so does everyone else.


Quote:
wait, I'll have to beat the US Government who will be "enforcing... illegal activities and more" soon too?

Does that mean they'll be making collusion, action flops and (illegal) rake mandatory? What else do they have up their sleeves?
Yes you will have to beat the US govt if you live in the US and play online poker. They will take your funds, and block deposits and withdrawls, and I hope punish offenders who continue to play online.

See, these player to player transfers could be funding terrorism, people having offshore accounts and not paying taxes makes my Uncle Sam really mad.


Quote:
quit being a drama queen. you received a couple of infractions for racist slurs which have no place in the 2+2 Internet Poker Forum. if you get banned then it's because you chose to be another martyr for the cause.
One of the BIG arguments is the motives of the owners of Stars, you have chosen as the Mod not to allow me to bring it up anymore, because the Z word is racist. I do not hate Israelis, I hate Israelis or anyone that has a motive to end the world, or to hurt America or the Western Hemisphere.


Quote:
minimal research doesn't yield overwhelming amounts of information.

Reading comprehension is offered at your local community college, try it and understand posts with at least some proficiency please. I stated I began doing minimal research which has turned into day and night for a while now. Talking amongst other players and I will continue to do more.


Quote:
there are many, many reasons I prefer to play online. mostly it's to avoid people like you who can't shut up.
Or because you might actually have to look someone in the eyes when you play. Im sure you are a great player,and wouldnt get crushed in a big live game, plus, not everyone playing live is a jerk like me.

Quote:
you've stated your opinion. nice of you to share. but this thread isn't your blog. I can send you a link to a site where you can create one for free if you like. Just let me know.
Am I posting too much here? Bothering you? Get over it, I have things to say regarding the subject. I am not twittering about my life or blogging about my wins and loses we are discussing back and fourth and people have commented on my posts so I am responding back. A blog? nice try kid.


Also, TY for pointing out my spelling mistakes, that is so kind of you. Maybe I should go to community college with you and take a spelling class while you take a reading comp class, maybe we collude on tests.
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:47 AM   #7400
NFuego20
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by feldzpar View Post
Then realize collusion is rampid and easy to do.

There are many others but I'll just have fun with this one...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rampid


1. rampid 45 up, 4 down
A non-existant word that mentally challenged people often confuse with the word "rampant."

See below.
Jack: The disease ran rampid throughout the country.
Jill: Rampid is not a word, you moron.

Jack: Pirated music is rampid in the Internet.
Jill: Are you really that stupid?
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