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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,508 34.88%
No
5,615 55.84%
Undecided
933 9.28%

11-05-2014 , 07:50 PM
No, the above is not what you originally said, it is what you said after you started backtracking.

Here is what you said when you came in this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
It is a proven fact that online poker is rigged.
...
Also some sites do not use RNGs to deal the cards. The hands are dealt out to create action. This is 100% proven and admitted to by the sites.
So when I said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOldGuy
Your first couple of posts in this thread were insisting that sites rig the deal to create action, and you even said this was well known and proven and that some sites even admitted to doing this. You said they didn't even use the RNG and just dealt what they want to. Amazing how your points have changed after your nonsense got challenged.

Then you were just lying here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
I did not claim to have any direct knowledge of rigging. I clearly stated that I do not believe the sites are rigged, but I have no way to know for sure and neither does anyone on this site. The thing about certain sites dealing to create action was something I read when the internet poker scandals/ripoffs were occurring several years ago. I assumed it was accurate, but I am in no way liable for any inaccuracies on the internet.

Last edited by NewOldGuy; 11-05-2014 at 07:57 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-05-2014 , 09:53 PM
ok...you got me....
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-05-2014 , 10:14 PM
Damn fish shovin A-2 for 25 bb's and hittin trip deuces against a call from A-K, pair or whatever. I'm tellin ya they know what is coming.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-05-2014 , 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grond
Damn fish shovin A-2 for 25 bb's and hittin trip deuces against a call from A-K, pair or whatever. I'm tellin ya they know what is coming.
I started wrapping my head in tinfoil after a sb push with 23 againt my AA in the big blind and the flop being A54 on the last hand before a break and a few spots before the bubble.

I think I started watching PStars-is-fixed videos on Youtube for a week after that before moving to play on a site not regulated by an Indian band or located on a island smaller than my City.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-05-2014 , 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
ok...you got me....
....lmao
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-05-2014 , 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by restorativejustice

I think I started watching PStars-is-fixed videos on Youtube for a week after that before moving to play on a site not regulated by an Indian band or located on a island smaller than my City.
Glad to see you researched this so thoroughly, well played.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-05-2014 , 11:19 PM
haha didn't try to come up with something better off the top of my head.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-05-2014 , 11:43 PM
Indians and islands are incapable of anything beyond drinking and fishing!!!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 01:19 AM
When I claimed that online poker is rigged, I was using the broad definition of "rigged" which includes all forms of cheating. I see on this thread , rigged only means RNG is not random.Sorry for the confusion.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 01:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
When I claimed that online poker is rigged, I was using the broad definition of "rigged" which includes all forms of cheating. I see on this thread , rigged only means RNG is not random.Sorry for the confusion.
Thankfully, you a are a quick learner. I wish you luck at your local casino.

Last edited by SquirtsMeatPack; 11-06-2014 at 01:43 AM. Reason: Do I need a "rolls eyes"?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
When I claimed that online poker is rigged, I was using the broad definition of "rigged" which includes all forms of cheating. I see on this thread , rigged only means RNG is not random.Sorry for the confusion.
the amount of cheating I have seen life, from colluding to openly sharing each others hands to marking the cards to psychically threatening people.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 11:42 AM
OMG Daniel spammed me with an email asking me to experience the thrill of spin & go. In before Donkey can moan about him being targeted.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by huntsman41
OMG Daniel spammed me with an email asking me to experience the thrill of spin & go. In before Donkey can moan about him being targeted.
I think you mean Jonathan Duhamel.

Looks like his letters get sent to everyone but Negreanu's just get sent to me and anyone else on the Stars rig list.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
I just read a thread that mentions pokerstars canceled a type of tourney called DON because there was so much collusion in that type of tourney. They just stopped running them.An entire class of touneys
Also it mentioned two colluders on party poker who were paying rake estimated at 30 k plus per year. The idea was that party would not ban them because they were generating too much rake.

Actually, the main issue with the DoNs was that by their very nature it is a format that encourages collusion, so they were getting flooded with collusion reports when many times it was standard play for that format. They went to the 50/50s because that also incentivized players to accumulate extra chips (which was not part of the DoN structure). As is part of your approach to things, you read something but did not take the time to think it out or understand it.


The other thing about Party Poker is a whatever issue, because all you are doing now is cherry picking incidents without proper references or context, and then assuming that it happens everywhere, all the time, without any recourse as per your (generally incorrect) interpretation of the events.

You are adopting the simplistic riggie approach and applying it to collusion in a thread which has nothing to do with collusion. I would wonder if this is a weird troll routine, but your posting history shows this is pretty much the level of posts and thinking you use for all of your posts on all topics.

Since you seem so hot and bothered with issues in the industry without understanding fully their scope or context, I will leave you with this youtube video of a genuine issue in many of the games on Stars (for cash $200 buy in and above generally)

Most riggies likely never heard of this issue as they watch for too many flushdraws hitting at their 2 NL tables., but based on your approach to things it is one you should have no problem blowing out of proportion, so enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKkVfCcfONA


All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 01:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
I have a healthy reward for any riggie that can prove the RnG is rigged at a significant site.

All the best.
Good bet, since the RNG isnt used to deal the cards. A software program deals the cards to each individual. New players receive many winning hands against players targeted for a rebuy. Rebuy players receive suckouts, hands that look like winners but are not, winning hands that might take a small blind but no more, etc., etc. Best part is that its basically undetectable using hand histories as it can be dismissed as variance.
Hurry in wiki/huntsman!

Last edited by scumbagsall; 11-06-2014 at 01:27 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 01:26 PM
Good thing this magical software knows exactly how the hands will be played out in advance, while also being smart enough to completely avoid detection with database analysis programs, all the while comfortable knowing the humans who programmed it and know about it for every room that ever existed (including hundreds now shut down) never speak of it.

What is your take on 9/11?


All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 02:00 PM
Ill give you a C grade on your smoke and mirror response. Youve been in this industry too long not to know that this is how the hands are dealt. What about the thousands of players leaving these rigged sites because of the obvious deal manipulation?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Actually, the main issue with the DoNs was that by their very nature it is a format that encourages collusion, so they were getting flooded with collusion reports when many times it was standard play for that format. They went to the 50/50s because that also incentivized players to accumulate extra chips (which was not part of the DoN structure). As is part of your approach to things, you read something but did not take the time to think it out or understand it.


The other thing about Party Poker is a whatever issue, because all you are doing now is cherry picking incidents without proper references or context, and then assuming that it happens everywhere, all the time, without any recourse as per your (generally incorrect) interpretation of the events.

You are adopting the simplistic riggie approach and applying it to collusion in a thread which has nothing to do with collusion. I would wonder if this is a weird troll routine, but your posting history shows this is pretty much the level of posts and thinking you use for all of your posts on all topics.

Since you seem so hot and bothered with issues in the industry without understanding fully their scope or context, I will leave you with this youtube video of a genuine issue in many of the games on Stars (for cash $200 buy in and above generally)

Most riggies likely never heard of this issue as they watch for too many flushdraws hitting at their 2 NL tables., but based on your approach to things it is one you should have no problem blowing out of proportion, so enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKkVfCcfONA


All the best.
Sorry to report that I cannot understand what is going on in this video.
Everyone knows that most likely these RNGs are not rigged, but they like to complain that they are when receiving bad beats. In live poker, it is the same as blaming the dealer when you get a bad beat. I see players who have been around for years actually think a certain dealer is causing them to lose. So, basically, I am telling you that "riggies" are just jacking with you. Chill out.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 02:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
Sorry to report that I cannot understand what is going on in this video.
Everyone knows that most likely these RNGs are not rigged, but they like to complain that they are when receiving bad beats. In live poker, it is the same as blaming the dealer when you get a bad beat. I see players who have been around for years actually think a certain dealer is causing them to lose. So, basically, I am telling you that "riggies" are just jacking with you. Chill out.
Seating scripts I would think (not watched it). Seats you with players weaker than you. It's good for winners, bad for rec players and bad for poker in general because of it long-term.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
Sorry to report that I cannot understand what is going on in this video.
Everyone knows that most likely these RNGs are not rigged, but they like to complain that they are when receiving bad beats. In live poker, it is the same as blaming the dealer when you get a bad beat. I see players who have been around for years actually think a certain dealer is causing them to lose. So, basically, I am telling you that "riggies" are just jacking with you. Chill out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
PS...Do you work at an online site?
After what you wrote above, I was going to ask you the same type of thing.
I know you read what I wrote below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scumbagsall
Good bet, since the RNG isnt used to deal the cards. A software program deals the cards to each individual. New players receive many winning hands against players targeted for a rebuy. Rebuy players receive suckouts, hands that look like winners but are not, winning hands that might take a small blind but no more, etc., etc. Best part is that its basically undetectable using hand histories as it can be dismissed as variance.
Hurry in wiki/huntsman!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scumbagsall
Good bet, since the RNG isnt used to deal the cards. A software program deals the cards to each individual. New players receive many winning hands against players targeted for a rebuy. Rebuy players receive suckouts, hands that look like winners but are not, winning hands that might take a small blind but no more, etc., etc. Best part is that its basically undetectable using hand histories as it can be dismissed as variance.
Hurry in wiki/huntsman!
Yes, I read this, but it didn't make a whole lotta sense to me. I will say this. When playing on Bodog a long time ago, I would lose on my own account, but when I played my girlfriend's account, I would win. I don't know if she was programmed to win or what. Also, this was before I knew it was considered not proper to use other people's accounts.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scumbagsall
[/B]



After what you wrote above, I was going to ask you the same type of thing.
I know you read what I wrote below.
Damn wish that were true. When I put money on PS I started with a lovely 20bi downswing. That new player program must be a new thing.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchine
I will say this. When playing on Bodog a long time ago, I would lose on my own account, but when I played my girlfriend's account, I would win.
Well ****, if you multiaccounted a for a few hundred hands and had wildly different results on each account, then surely that must be proof it's rigged.

Excellent work cracking the case, Sherlock.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scumbagsall
Ill give you a C grade on your smoke and mirror response. Youve been in this industry too long not to know that this is how the hands are dealt. What about the thousands of players leaving these rigged sites because of the obvious deal manipulation?
You still have not explained how the magical software knows how humans will play out a hand every time, nor how all of the people who know about it keep the secret, even for rooms that have long since shut down. Also, how does it avoid being detected in Holdem Manager, since the hands are not random in your belief.

How about this - give a specific example of a hand at a 9 handed table. Provide details of the types of players (ie: how they base the rig), and what hands they will get and how exactly the hand will play out. Should be simple since you think it happens every hand, so if that is the case how about we just take a random case hand and a random tournament from Stars and you can break down how the rig worked!

PokerStars Hand #124607826422: Hold'em No Limit ($3/$6 - $120 Cap - USD) - 2014/11/06 14:08:07 ET
Table 'Aspidiske II' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Tikitiki4260 ($36.84 in chips)
Seat 2: MistTheFlop ($98.16 in chips)
Seat 3: niqx ($315.74 in chips)
Seat 4: E1ephant ($141 in chips)
Seat 5: thegobby ($120 in chips)
Seat 6: Jovanella ($127.88 in chips)
Seat 7: limpnfold24 ($126 in chips)
Seat 8: darklol ($120 in chips)
Seat 9: ffguitarguy ($141 in chips)
MistTheFlop: posts small blind $3
niqx: posts big blind $6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
E1ephant: folds
thegobby: folds
Jovanella: folds
limpnfold24: folds
darklol: raises $6 to $12
ffguitarguy: folds
Tikitiki4260: calls $12
MistTheFlop: folds
niqx: calls $6
*** FLOP *** [Jc 3d 7s]
niqx: checks
darklol: checks
Tikitiki4260: bets $24.84 and is all-in
niqx: raises $24.84 to $49.68
darklol: folds
Uncalled bet ($24.84) returned to niqx
*** TURN *** [Jc 3d 7s] [Jd]
*** RIVER *** [Jc 3d 7s Jd] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
niqx: shows [8h 7d] (two pair, Jacks and Sevens)
Tikitiki4260: mucks hand
niqx collected $85.88 from pot


PokerStars Hand #124607949845: Tournament #1015297034, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (50/100) - 2014/11/06 14:09:48 ET
Table '1015297034 11' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: rcaplan10 (4600 in chips)
Seat 2: Ace1578 (3920 in chips)
Seat 3: robinsoN1337 (2290 in chips)
Seat 4: robaldo12 (11825 in chips)
Seat 5: NutsedAllTim (1557 in chips)
Seat 6: jaccuzzi12 (13330 in chips)
Seat 7: djlann (8856 in chips)
Seat 8: THOMASPOKERO (18592 in chips)
Seat 9: Chafton (5040 in chips)
rcaplan10: posts the ante 10
Ace1578: posts the ante 10
robinsoN1337: posts the ante 10
robaldo12: posts the ante 10
NutsedAllTim: posts the ante 10
jaccuzzi12: posts the ante 10
djlann: posts the ante 10
THOMASPOKERO: posts the ante 10
Chafton: posts the ante 10
NutsedAllTim: posts small blind 50
jaccuzzi12: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
djlann: folds
jaccuzzi12 is disconnected
THOMASPOKERO: folds
Chafton: folds
rcaplan10: raises 100 to 200
Ace1578: calls 200
robinsoN1337: folds
robaldo12: folds
NutsedAllTim: raises 1347 to 1547 and is all-in
jaccuzzi12: folds
rcaplan10: raises 3043 to 4590 and is all-in
Ace1578: folds
Uncalled bet (3043) returned to rcaplan10
*** FLOP *** [Jc 9h Ts]
*** TURN *** [Jc 9h Ts] [3c]
*** RIVER *** [Jc 9h Ts 3c] [As]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
NutsedAllTim: shows [7c Qc] (high card Ace)
rcaplan10: shows [Js Jh] (three of a kind, Jacks)
rcaplan10 collected 3484 from pot
NutsedAllTim finished the tournament in 14933rd place


I mention these again knowing you will completely ignore answering them, while with unintentional irony suggesting others use "smoke and mirrors.

Also, how can thousands of riggies be leaving the sites when it is near impossible to get a single one to actually quit playing online poker in a riggie thread! I know I have told many riggies they should quit, just as someone like you should never play another hand of poker, but they do, and probably you do as well.

If you will not quit all forms of poker, where are these mysterious thousands of riggies who have quit, and why can't they all vote in this poll to get the riggie side in a riggie thread to 50%. You voted dozens of times, so what is the problem?

All the best.

Last edited by Monteroy; 11-06-2014 at 03:12 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-06-2014 , 07:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scumbagsall
Good bet, since the RNG isnt used to deal the cards. A software program deals the cards to each individual. New players receive many winning hands against players targeted for a rebuy. Rebuy players receive suckouts, hands that look like winners but are not, winning hands that might take a small blind but no more, etc., etc. Best part is that its basically undetectable using hand histories as it can be dismissed as variance.
Hurry in wiki/huntsman!
# at least one who got it right
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
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