Your trolling is getting old, and no funnier each time. If you don't like the thread, stop reading it. But if you just can't stop yourself from reading, I'd advise you to stop posting in it if you have nothing to add but crap like this.

He never was the same after I mentally broke him.

After all, he did post this to you in February

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=67935


and he did mock a troll riggie earlier on with this comment

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=66053


He has become that which he mocked, and he will be back again, especially after this easy bait post, though maybe he will try to hold back a while given I said it was an obvious bait post. Either way he will do as he is told eventually, as that is his way. Apparently I have him on ignore (though that does not block others quoting him) so perhaps I will take him off to amuse myself with his next post.

Truth.

.

Laurents, If I remember correctly, you are the chess player who played hypers and had some trouble with the extreme variance in that game. I also believe you've moved away from your rigged views and have possibly made strides with your poker. If so, I suggest you go back and reread much of what Monteroy has said in his posts. To anyone he stops taking seriously, he tends to be mocking and possibly very irritating, but there is a great deal of good advice and honest, if possibly brutal, appraisal also in his posting that tends to get missed when people are angry and hurt that he isn't taking everything said in here seriously. Your appraisal above is also off by quite a bit in at least the following ways:
1. He offers one specific bet: prove a rig. This seems a very reasonable offer in this thread and to those who believe it's there, the odds he's offering should be inviting; and yet no one has ever come close to succeeding and few try.
2. That database does get a bit old, but so does most of this thread.
3. You seem to have missed the entire point of why he posts his bad beats. He does so to show they happen to everyone. Riggies post them endlessly not realizing that at best they are funny, at worst useless (ie. prove nothing).
4. I have never seen him 'brag' about how much money he makes. He states that he makes more than the riggies who come in here and frequently either brag themselves or challenge him on how much money he makes from poker.
5. The fact is, not one single riggie I've seen post here has shown they have much of a clue how to play at anything resembling even a modest level. Not one. He doesn't start fights, he points out a truth that others also point to. The fights usually begin immediately afterwards with riggies going ballistic in trying to prove they are (actual words of one riggie here) 'the best microstakes player in the world' or some such nonsense.
6. Yeah, this one is true...

If you've improved your game either in hypers or where ever, I'm very happy to hear it and I do wish you luck in moving up the poker ladder, but losing any fixation or anger you have at Monteroy or anyone in this thread would be very useful in that quest.

I guess, according to one poster recently, that this post and my last one, put my IQ somewhere near 60, so take it in whatever fashion you choose.

I always respect your opinion czechraiser, but I think in this case you made a few false assumptions.

General:

I do not feel anger or frustration towards anyone in this thread. Some advice was really helpful and helped me out. I must say that I do not like the way Monteroy express himself on different occasions. He said that it is my destiny to be a riggie, I am here to show he is wrong.
Even a riggie can change his false logic. Monteroy could argue: 'you are running good so you do not complain'. But in fact I am 170 BI's under EV at this moment. Closed 2013 with 60 BI's under EV and I am running in 2014 with 110 BI's under EV, but I did not fall back in my riggie point of view. So yeh even after this amount off bad-luck I didn't start crying to much about it. And I think in a year time, I am capable to not even look at the way I am running. Having Mental Game 1 and 2 on my night table, I am making progress on this everyday.
You could argue that I should be thank-full to Monteroy, and in some way I am. On the other side I am also very happy to show that Monteroy was dead wrong with many of his statements.

1. This is one way of looking at it. He offered more bets though, and for me it is also a bit of showing off.
2. Agreed
3. The point he wants to make is obvious and he makes this obvious point often. Seems like trolling for me.
4. Well, I can show you some messages if you want. He did brag a few times about the money he makes. Its not a secret that Monteroy likes to show off a bit in the time he has between following different games and making a huge amount of money.
5. That is a matter of perspective. We are not talking about an angel here. He does like to trash-talk a bit, but he does it on a bit sneaky way, can be hard to notice, I believe that 'Gunslinger' is a pretty decent player. It would be a false assumption to say that there are not 'riggies' amongst 'good' players.

I am making a lot of progress, so that is nice. We will see where it will end. My personal results have nothing to do with the argument though. It is not that my arguments become so much better just because I play at a higher level and know a bit better how to play an hand.

I appreciate the detailed analysis on my motives, one of the more genuine debates in this thread in a long time, but let me make it simpler since the real answers tend to be somewhere in between.

1) While I may have made some riggie specific prop bets I know will be declined, the general one of paying for proof of a rig has remained pretty much unchanged over the years. Not a single riggie has ever done any work in that regard though some have claimed it was not "worth their time" before complaining about another freeroll beat.

2) I post it about once a month and only when it includes new riggies, and generally for new riggies. Kind of obvious what the list demonstrates - that paranoia comes in all shapes and sizes, many times contradicting each other. It also encourages new and upcoming riggies to be creative in their theories.

3) Not so much trolling as giving the whiny riggies perspective that what they complain about is completely mundane. So far no riggies have taken the challenge and for good reason - it would show their beliefs of a rig against themselves to be meaningless.

4) I have definitely bragged at times, but always in reply to riggies who continue to bring up my meaningless (in terms of money) play at the tables. Not my fault that riggies do not see money earned from different sources within the same industry as money earned, so if they mock how much I make at the tables (which I do not even track until end of year) then I just offer a better perspective on that.

5) Some riggies can play to an extent, though most are casual donks. A lot of the ones who actually grind are more bad beat whiners than full riggies.

For most of the people posting their whiny rants - they should quit as they are doing an activity they hate and make nothing from in terms of money. Why do that with any activity?

6) Only 95% of my posts end that way. In fact my post before this one did not!



Some other notes:

Laurents - the "buyins under EV" stat is about as meaningful as the sharkscope "ability" stat. It is meaningless (players I back who worry about it I just suggest they turn it off their HEM graph) and those that obsess about it are generally part of the 90/10 club - 90% of whining from 10% of the population. If they have paranoid tendencies then riggiedom is a natural step for them (in all facets of life, not just poker), but those that are not paranoid who whine are just that - whiners, and not much more. In any case the obsession about EV it is a fairly "blatant" flaw in a player's mental game.


Nearly all of my posts in this thread at this point are about as genuine as a professional wrestling match. Some of my better "fights" have been with players I was backing at the time that I suggested create a gimmick account here and we would have some fun. I told them to be as mean/weird/fun as possible, and most never really were good at that but a couple did ok and got into some fun arguments with some of the more serious shills for a while (and I would offer some suggestions to them for posts I admit).

The dude who challenged me to a sex contest was completely genuine (as far as I know), as was the emo shill who suffered the nervous breakdown, but a couple of the "riggie" posters who were not quite what they seem would surprise some here .

Real discussions used to happen in this thread years ago, but they do not any more, so all this should be for anyone is a fun place to argue or vent or troll, and nothing more. I never take anything anyone posts in this thread seriously, including myself and that is advice all should follow. I assume Laurents just had a couple bad days at the table which is why he came here to vent, and that is what this thread is about.

All the very best (just to mix it up a bit).

Hi Laurents, I'm glad to hear you're making progress. You don't mention whether you're still playing hypers or if you're playing regular speed or turbos. If you're still playing hypers, I'll assume you are beginning to get just how vicious variance is in these games. I do suggest you turn off the overlay all-in ev on your HEM/PT. It's a fairly useless stat, as Monteroy mentions in his post above. Just forget about it and pay attention to whether you're, to the best of your knowledge, playing each point of a hand well or not.
As far as riggies being good or not, i've been reading and occasionally contributing to this thread for way too long now, and I have yet to come across anyone claiming a rig who demonstrated anything resembling a strong understanding of the game and very few with much more than a basic understanding. Gunslinger, if I recall correctly, didn't show much in that regard; I only remember him claiming results. A number of so-called shills have, on the other hand given very specific and detailed analysis of hands that did demonstrate such knowledge. By no means all of the 'shills' but definitely at least several.
A stronger understanding of poker actually does and will improve anyone's arguments in this thread as a great deal of the 'argumentation' from genuine riggies is going to be based on false assumptions and misconceptions as to how variance works, why hands play out the way they do, and, most especially, why they are losing or barely winning instead of raking in the chips day after day.
Anyways, keep working on your game and I look forward to hearing that you're doing well at it.

I got 96.789% MATBITT stat... ( Monty All The Best In The Thread) when I did the math. but close enough for practical applications.

I think the last "real discussion" ITT was when spadebidder was posting here.

It would have been nice if he had continued with his analysis, but you can't really blame him for not doing so.



.

Hey czechraiser, thanks again for your comments!
I do hope it doesn't get more brutal like this. I have my share of variance that is for sure. At the moment (all are below EV): 1.5 dollar: 24BI's, 3.5 dollar: 40BI's, 7 dollar: 8BI's, 15 dollar: 82BI's and 30 dollar: 18BI's. So that is 172BI's, and that is a lot. I think there are not that many players, that will ever reach in life an total down-swing of 172BI's, but honestly I do not know how much variance we can expect in HU hyper. Variance is something that can be at some point hard to deal with if you are working hard but keep on hitting this thing you have no control over. You are playing to win some cash and also to show nice results, and it is off-course not nice if you are losing half of your winnings to variance. Even worse if it starts to effect your game, and you start to lower your volume and play worse. So as an upcoming player, you can understand it can be very discouraging to be faced with this kind of variance.
For now I am not at the point I can fully accept it, but I do made a lot of improvements. I managed to have an overall EV on the 15's of 3.7% over all my games even though I had an 82BI's down-swing. I had some tilts during my play because of this, but I managed to stay reasonable focus on my play. A year ago I would not be able to survive this thing without going insane crazy about it. We will see how it will go in the future, as the level gets higher, your edge becomes lower and you start to be even more depending on not be to much below EV 24/7. And because your edge becomes lower, it start to become even more important not to be distracted by it. So how to handle these two factors become of vital importance if I am reaching higher BI's levels in the HU hyper playing field. There is a reason that poker can be tough. So from this perspective, it is a good thing that I know a bit how variance can keep on growing, beating you on every BI's and can be a constant pain in the ass. So things will not become more easy in the future. and I hope off-course to reach a point that I do not get bothered a bit by variance and that I, not only for my play but also overall happiness in poker, accept that variance will be there and never leave.
Anyway, we will see. The change this will happen again over my next 8000 games is basically zero, and if it does well lets not talk about that (-:. I will give this variance an closure and I put myself back on zero (should do that always, but that's hard).

If you have a bad day there is nothing better than to come to the riggie thread and bitch about Monteroy. As it is my destiny to be a paranoid and whine once in a while (will not argue about that), it is also your destiny to hear riggies bitching (at you or poker) 24/7. So I guess you and me are a match made in heaven.

I have dealt with well over 1,000 poker players at this point, including ones that went to prison, ones that got addicted to crack, ones that had complete mental breakdowns, ones that had personal issues that would make Jerry Springer blush. Also have had the fortune of dealing with many, many decent people who work hard to make a living for themselves (and the one tiny aspect about the riggie lifestyle I do not care for is that their beliefs dismiss the work these hard working players put into their game - I know that riggie trait pisses czechraiser at times as well).

You should theoretically relate to this Laurents as you have said you are working hard on your game, particularly the mental aspect. Let's assume you make progress and eventually conquer the mental tilt/EV obsession beast and start really producing good long term results. Riggies come in and dismiss them saying you are just on a boomswitch because the sites want you to win. They take all of your work and effort and wipe their ass with it and then if they remember they flush it down the toilet if the toilet is not rigged. Charming, isn't it?

I have seen and heard pretty much it all, though once in a while I do get surprised. I always hope this thread will toss me a fun surprise, but generally it are people making stuff up (either lying or trolling) or just going through fairly routine behavior swings for an industry like this. Your general story for instance is hardly unique. You play a high variance game and whine a lot about EV as if you are some type of martyr, even though that EV figure is a relatively meaningless stat. Yawn.

Riggies can whine 24/7 if they like, but I am fortunate to have the ability to forget people who do not matter rather quickly (which is why I need to assign nicknames to riggies to remember them). I am still amazed when these other "shills" remember you guys, as I had no idea which one you were until czechraiser specified those details.

It is mildly amusing to see riggies I barely remember still annoyed from a meaningless debate in a pointless thread months or even years ago, but that is one of the burdens of the riggie lifestyle. If you or any riggie ever said anything that genuinely "put me in my place," I would be the first to congratulate that riggie for a job well done, and I always encourage the effort, though to date the output has been uninspiring.

Hopefully that EV obsession thing of yours will work itself out. If it does not you have a lot of company.

All the best.

Most people around here know about your bad memory and that is not because they care but because they remember it. Hard to explain this. I think it is a very wise career-move from you to stop the game and focus on something else to make money. All though there are rumours that you stopped playing because you could not handle the variance of poker. This would explain why you spend so much time in this thread: you actually are a riggie! You are looking for some kind of resolution around here. And by acting like you do in this mysterious way, you can put yourself number 1 at your riggie database. So here you have it, isn't that a big surprise!

Hope you find here what you are looking for and I hope one day you will start playing again. I am looking forward playing you, and remember AA is very good and 23os is very bad. The rest you can figure out yourself.

GL at the tables!

Now Monte has a new category of riggie for his database, and it is he. He is the pretend anti-riggie riggie, and he needs much counseling. LOL!

Apparently I am memorable to riggies. In contrast riggies tend not to be memorable to me, and I openly admit to making zero effort to remember them.

For now I think I will continue to pursue this, but you will be happy to know that I definitely have sources of income outside of this industry as well. Thanks though for the suggestion in between your games.

Aside from playing DoNs for a while on Stars and casually playing Omaha MTTs, I don't think I ever played poker with the primary goal being how much I made at the actual tables as there were always much better alternatives to make considerably more, whether it be by organizing a bonus whoring team or staking 100+ players.

You should find out who started the false rumor that I ever considered myself an actual poker player .


Not really. I tried to get some riggies to become the riggie leader, but they all lacked the ability so I openly volunteered for the job as I knew I could come up with better ways for riggies to whine than they were doing.

Your EV whine for instance - extremely boring. A whole forum is dedicated to people posting EV graphs. If you really need to whine about EV graphs for instance do not just say you are running xx BIs below expectations, rather make up stats with percentages and standard deviations with how you are running.

You are running 3 std deviations worse 33% of the time and 4 std deviations 25% of the time and 5 std deviations 20% of the time, and say you have done the work many times and asked friends who are experts at stats and they all agree.

When the shills tell you that you have no idea what you are doing just cut and paste some definitions of math from Wikipedia to help them out.

Do various iterations of that and have fun at the expense of shills.

What do we get instead? This


I never played in the manner you speak.

I play about 1 day a week, I will play next Sunday. Join some of the MTts I am in, most Omaha ones and likely a few Holdem ones including the Sunday Million. We can see how we each do, it could be fun, right?


GL off the tables is more appropriate, and thanks for the effort. We should eventually let the others in this thread know that we discussed a stake for you for a while (and if I remember correctly I pointed you to husng which would be a better fit for you in terms of coaching), so they do not forget what I said about this thread always being a version of pro wrestling in terms of legitimate content . If you like, I can send you another PM with how to try to troll me better.

All the best.

I just want to applaude this quote as this is the very end of this godamned debate, right there. Period. Nuff said. Word to the wise (and dumb). PERIOD!

What a memory suddenly! Anyway, let business be business. I much appreciated your recommendation, and I already thanked you for that in a PM. No need to tell the people in this thread. Around here I say what I want to say and if I do not like something, I will say it. I am bitching about the things you say around here because I think you can be a complete something against these poor riggies who just have a bit of a hard time. That was before we talked about staking and after that, so I am pretty consistent in bitching at you.

But well if you bring it up I am currently, after you recommended it, at HUSNG for three months and it goes quit well. They have to (off-course, as you would understand for sure) deal with my whining and bitching once in a while but I am a loyal, passionate and devoting player so that balance things a bit. Just moved up to play the 30's, after my backers said I am good to go, managed to do reasonable but still a lot of work to do mentally and on my game. A lot of room to improve, that's for sure. We will see how it goes, maybe I am crushing the 60's and 100's in a year, who knows. Dream big, life has a lot of opportunities, even for an ex-riggie who is a bit paranoid.

Like I said your the king of all riggies! It takes a lot of mental strength and creativity to be the best of all riggies, I applaud for that!

Look Monteroy, I know I post a lot of whining around here and add some extra whining in real life. I am not a mysterious guy like you, I am a open book. I do not have a secret agenda around here, like you, I just speak my mind and let it all fly away. I need to release some stress once in a while, poker is in fact a tough game. There is nothing in life that made me more angry and frustrated as poker. It is the biggest challenge I ever faced mentally. Poker is a place that gives you the illusion to be the greatest and destroys all your dreams a day later. To understand poker takes a lot of experience, I see that now and it is something I did not see a year ago.

I am not going to calculate how I am running in SD. Its just the way it is, I have to deal with it, its tough and that is the way it is. It effects my game, so that sucks, and I need to change my approach towards it. So that will take a lot of work mentally, and that's that. Jared is my guide and he will help me out a bit.

I would like to play you one day: maybe we can do some HU matches. Lets say Omaho and Holdem. I am sure that you would win, but I can give it a try.

Take care Monteroy, hope you try to be nice towards riggies in the future. These pour souls deserve it.

I cheated and looked at my PMs and saw the exchanges we had.

Once in a while they need reminding that this thread is pretty much all an act except for the real nutjobs and the few remaining serious "shills" that take the nutjobs and trolls a bit too seriously.

People would be pretty shocked how many riggies I had "heated" debates with, that I gave genuine advice in PMs, who followed it and are doing much, much better now as a result.

There have been a few who PMed me and I simply said that they should quit poker because they really should (huge drain on their emotions and time for no benefit), but those guys really are only happy when they are miserable.


The Lizard Overlords are pretty definite about what can be revealed.

I gave you and quite a few more riggies than people would expect genuine advice to actually do something in this industry. You followed much of it. I even humiliated that emo shill out of the thread as a bonus for riggies and my own amusement. I think I do generally ok toward the riggie culture overall, even if I do not receive nor expect any credit for the work

All the best.

Saint Monty the Patron Saint of Riggies :-)

it would be great if they change poker nlhe rule. best 3 community cards and best 2 holecards. sick of some bad beats like AA lose to 22 hitting flush.

They did, with a few other changes as well...it's called Omaha.

that is plo. i refer to nlhe.

Yeah, who wants those fish chasing draws, amirite?

Was the joke that hard to see, especially considering he said it was Omaha in his post?

And no, you're not referring to NLHE; you're inventing some new game, I guess because you don't like the fact that people who chase (something that you should want to see) hit their hands sometimes (something you should want to see or they'll stop doing it).

BTW, if this is meant as some kind of calendar-related joke, you probably chose the worst thread for it.

Ok. So we've all had our moments when we were convinced that ONLINE POKER is RIGGED. Some theories suggest that the poker sites operating on "the fringes of USA law" such as:

INTERTOPS
CARBON
BLACK CHIP POKER
AMERICA'S CARDROOM
TRUE POKER
FULL FLUSH POKER
BETONLINE.AG
JUICYSTAKES
ACED
POKERHOST
LOCK

have random number generators that are skewed in some way (i.e. not random). People complain incessantly about how their AA's or KK's are constantly beat by the weakest pocket pair, or how two pairs are always sucked out by completed flushes or full houses on the river and etc.... We are all familiar with these stories; at one point or another in our poker careers, I'm sure we've all had our doubts about the sanctity of online poker as it is currently offered in the USA after black friday.

So now that poker is actually legal in your state, I would like to know whether or not the experience has been different.

Do you feel the new sites you play on are in any way "more fair" than the sites mentioned above?

Do hands appear to be more "random" than they were on the sites listed above?

Do you now have faith that since online poker has been regulated in your state there is FINALLY a SAFE and FAIR place to play online poker?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.