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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,525 34.92%
No
5,627 55.75%
Undecided
942 9.33%

01-25-2014 , 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullDeck


That will be my absolute last post about rigging, I promise. I know this for certain because I'm done with that BS site they call 888 poker which has been the site I've had a problem with all along.
See you in a few days and make sure you lose a lot of money like degens are supposed to
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-25-2014 , 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullDeck
That will be my absolute last post about rigging, I promise. I know this for certain because I'm done with that BS site they call 888 poker which has been the site I've had a problem with all along.
Best of luck not going right back to your degenerate gambling, and more importantly, not making more worthless posts in a thread full of worthless posts.

I'll set the over/under for your next whiny post ITT at 16 days.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-25-2014 , 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rig Astley
See you in a few days and make sure you lose a lot of money like degens are supposed to
His last whining was about his results with his $1 bankroll, so I suspect he is incapable of losing a lot of money, so I will actually take the side that he will not post again because he is completely broke at this point anyway.

Degen bad beat whine blog riggies are the definition of boring.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-25-2014 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
His last whining was about his results with his $1 bankroll, so I suspect he is incapable of losing a lot of money, so I will actually take the side that he will not post again because he is completely broke at this point anyway.

Degen bad beat whine blog riggies are the definition of boring.
ROFL!

I haven't lost a dime to NJ poker. Just cashed out on 888poker because I finally had enough of that awful site.

Haven't had enough time to play lately like I like to. Definitely don't need anymore of that bogus site.

Last edited by FullDeck; 01-25-2014 at 07:09 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-25-2014 , 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTheJester
Anyway, there IS an anomoly for the short stack on the exit hand losing more often than is normal.
Short stack loses 100% of the time on the 'exit hand'. Otherwise, it wouldn't be an 'exit hand'. DUCY?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-25-2014 , 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FullDeck
Just need a place to vent some more about the absolutely ridiculous site that they call 888poker. Site is complete trash. Nonsense after nonsense.

I have AJ blinds are 30/60. 2 guys sitting out. SB is there and BB is out. I raise to 120.

SB calls with Q 7. Rainbow flop comes J 8 7. I push all-in right there. I'm really just trying to speed things up so I bet like that. It doesn't matter because this stupid donk calls with his garbage Q 7 o

Next card is a King and then a 7 on the river to give him trips.

GTFO of here really. Nonsense after nonsense on that garbage ass site.

I withdrew all my money from that trash a couple days ago but left a few dollars on there. I was going to play poker but I said nah poker on this site is bull****. So I played some Blackjack. I built up from $1 to $16. Of course I was considering just pulling this money off the site right then and there but I decided I should continue to build it up through blackjack.

Well soon enough the cards run like complete BS. I have no idea how many decks they use. So i went into the "Premium Blackjack" Min $5 bets and they use one deck.

I get dealt 20 so I stay with it. Dealer shows 7 5, he hits and gets an 8 and we push.

Right there I realized the site was total BS up and down. Went back into the standard blackjack and cards kept on running like total BS. They were basically saying you shouldve took the $10 and ran because now we're taking everything you bet.

I was bored so I went to roulette on Borgata. If that **** isnt rigged then IDK what to say. I bet on red for the first like 4 spins and none hit. I switched to bet black and it hit red. I switched back and it hit black. Just really kept going like that and I didn't win one spin. I bet even and it landed on odd.

A lot of these internet games are straight up bull****. 888poker is garbage up and down and yes I do believe the program has severe flaws and rigged against me to an extent. I play one game on there and see this BS. If I played another game I'd see more BS. **** that site really.
Along time ago at the El Rancho in Las Vegas, out of a 6 deck shoe, I pushed 7 straight hands with the dealer. All 7 hands were blackjacks.

Stuff happens
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-26-2014 , 04:31 AM
Eh, please don't take offense...but your Q7o vs AJo hand on a J 8 7 flop is ridiculous. We're talking about a 4:1 favorite, which means he had a 1 in 5 shot to beat you. Not really unusual....
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-26-2014 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by donk mcReetard
my riggie proclamation:

sometimes when I'm at a tight or early level of a sng and flop a very strong hand such as a set on a very dry board and i know if I bet i'm not getting called, I may elect to slowplay a bit in order to hopefully build the pot on later streets. I've been punished on the river by too many miracles now to even consider this as a +cEV play. it's a shame & a sin. there...i'm a riggie now...
Whatever you do, don't start building a pot on the flop with your a strong hands that would just be stupid.

Considering you've hit a set, I'd assume it's a raised pot (though you are probably a compulsive limper) so the pot should already be about 6-10bb. And I mean, dry flops are terrible to build a pot on, no way is your hand stronger than anyone wld expect.

Let's wait a street before putting anymore in, that way when the board is no longer dry we can safely start shovelling money in and come moaning when the river hits.

Enjoy your riggie status, your playing style sounds perfect for it.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-26-2014 , 08:18 PM
I will happily open my Holdem manger database for analysis.

So sick of 4 months of torture, with the dominating hand losing way more often than it should in important pots.

I personally just do not feel like the deal is on the square.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-26-2014 , 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger1988
I will happily open my Holdem manger database for analysis.

So sick of 4 months of torture, with the dominating hand losing way more often than it should in important pots.

I personally just do not feel like the deal is on the square.
filetea.me

No registration or app install necessary. Just drag the file unto the "add files" area, copy and paste the link here. Should take under a minute.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-26-2014 , 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunslinger1988
I will happily open my Holdem manger database for analysis.

So sick of 4 months of torture, with the dominating hand losing way more often than it should in important pots.

I personally just do not feel like the deal is on the square.


Nice to see someone willing to do that. Other options for you (if you do not trust bodhisoma and assume he will rig your data) are to post on the Holdem Manager forums you will certainly find some who will do it for you for a fee, or maybe even at no cost (though if you scream about riggie stuff you likely would scare away anyone who would do it for free).

You can of course post there asking how to use your database program to do the work yourself if you do not want to pay anyone else to do it and then present your data.

Also, feel free to use the tools at this site

http://www.ispokerrigged.com/index.html


Nice to see a riggie finally willing to do some work to support his beliefs, I look forward to your conclusions, though truth be told I do suspect your interest to do the actual work will fade pretty quickly. Perhaps you will surprise us!

All the best.

P.S. Feel free to post some of your bad beats, and see if they beat these ones for instance just to be festive

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...864_D4EE14E517

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-h...755_43179CF7C7
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-26-2014 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Nice to see someone willing to do that. Other options for you (if you do not trust bodhisoma and assume he will rig your data)
How you interpreted "here's how you can easily share you data" with "I'd be willing to comb through your hand histories" is a mystery.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 05:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGreebo
Dude, I'll make a prop bet with you. $100 on the line. USD (And so you know - my wife and I budget every penny and $100 is my discretionary money for an entire month so this is a pretty serious amount for me.)

Zip up your hand histories - ALL of them from 888. I'll import them into a clean database and run the analysis and I'll video the entire process from me downloading the zip file from email to creating the new clean db, the import, everything.

We'll look at every hand where you :
1) Saw your opponents hole cards
2) Your opponent had a runner-runner straight draw on the flop (I'll have to do some work to figure out how to filter for that but I'm pretty good at database analysis so I can work it out)
3) Calculate how many of those cases where you saw the hole cards ended up making the straight

The odds of a runner-runner straight being made are at best a bit over 4%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_p...er-runner_outs - call it 1 in 20.

There's going to be some variance - depending on how many hands your histories contain I think some slighting adjustment for variance is necessary - say that if you have < 100 hands we can go as high as 10% (total 14%) but if you have > 5000 hands we shouldn't see more than 2%. (6% total). Lets call it a linear progression between 100-5000 simply cause I'm terrible at calculus and its easier for me to work out a straight line. Although I think it's actually a curve which means I'm giving you an edge here (I think - any statisticians in the house wanna comment?)

If the total number of made runner runner straights works out to a percentage GREATER than the estimated variance, you win the $100. If not, I get the $100 and you re-evaluate why you're losing. (I know I can't hold you to the last part)

Hmm. Anyone know a good escrow site that takes paypal?
I never plan to play on 888's rigged site again. I already know it's all rigged, if you don't believe me just take your $100, make a deposit, wait a month until your new player boomswitch wears off, and try to beat any of the games up to 50nl. You'll find donks get runner runner flush and straight draw suckouts almost all the time. Anyone else who has an open mind who plays on 888 will be able to verify what I'm saying.

I don't get this whole 'prove it' bull****. What motivation would I have to say 888 is rigged unless it was? To 'prove' I'm good at poker to people on the internet I've never met?

And I'm not a losing player overall in poker. I'm only a couple of hundred dollars up over my lifetime in cash games, granted. But that's because up until now I've just been playing 2nl, 5nl, and a bit of 10nl. I'm up about the same amount in tournaments but I don't play them anymore except when I get freeroll tickets. My overall cash game winrate is 8bb/100. Not amazing for micros, nah, but that's because of the rig dragging my winrate down. I'm still not losing even with the rig though.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolpotodds
I don't get this whole 'prove it' bull****.
What's so hard to get about it? When you claim to have observed something that other people haven't, it's pretty natural for them to want to see some proof. Especially when the allegation is this serious, and people make dubious claims on the Internet all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolpotodds
What motivation would I have to say 888 is rigged unless it was? To 'prove' I'm good at poker to people on the internet I've never met?
Who knows? But asking for proof doesn't necessarily mean people think you are making it up - you can be incorrect without making anything up.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolpotodds
I never plan to play on 888's rigged site again. I already know it's all rigged, if you don't believe me just take your $100, make a deposit, wait a month until your new player boomswitch wears off, and try to beat any of the games up to 50nl. You'll find donks get runner runner flush and straight draw suckouts almost all the time. Anyone else who has an open mind who plays on 888 will be able to verify what I'm saying.

I don't get this whole 'prove it' bull****. What motivation would I have to say 888 is rigged unless it was? To 'prove' I'm good at poker to people on the internet I've never met?

And I'm not a losing player overall in poker. I'm only a couple of hundred dollars up over my lifetime in cash games, granted. But that's because up until now I've just been playing 2nl, 5nl, and a bit of 10nl. I'm up about the same amount in tournaments but I don't play them anymore except when I get freeroll tickets. My overall cash game winrate is 8bb/100. Not amazing for micros, nah, but that's because of the rig dragging my winrate down. I'm still not losing even with the rig though.
It's not that anyone automatically assumes that you have a motivation to lie, or to prove something.

There are multiple reason why someone could think that it's rigged while in reality it's not. The human brain sucks at approximating the frequency of events in hindsight. There are effects like selective memory, confirmation bias et cetera (there is a pretty long list to find on wikipedia, but cba to look for it again) which make it unlikely that everything is exactly as you think it would be. These are proven issues, and you should make sure they are not the reason you think that way before making allegations.

Or do you think you are immune to biases and your perception is flawless? Talk about "having an open mind".
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 07:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolpotodds
I never plan to play on 888's rigged site again.
Nice of you to wait until after the offer expired to respond (despite you being in the BBV section ranting it up again on the very same day I posted my challenged.
Quote:
I already know it's all rigged, if you don't believe me just take your $100
If you KNOW it's rigged then it should be an easy call for you to take my bet and win 100 shouldn't it?

Oh well - too late. You 'missed the window' and now you can continue to insist that it's all rigged. How convenient for you.

And if I could register at 888 I would. I'm from Maryland.

Quote:
I don't get this whole 'prove it' bull****. What motivation would I have to say 888 is rigged unless it was? To 'prove' I'm good at poker to people on the internet I've never met?
Because it's easier to lie to yourself and claim a site is rigged than it is to face up that you need to work on your game.

Quote:
And I'm not a losing player overall in poker. I'm only a couple of hundred dollars up over my lifetime in cash games, granted. But that's because up until now I've just been playing 2nl, 5nl, and a bit of 10nl.
Did you actually record all your buy ins and cash outs? Or are you making numbers up again?

Cause so far, to date, I'm a losing player. I'm down exactly $159 in live games (loss of $2.25 an hour) and $70 online

(Oh and plus $300 at Lock ripoff poker but I can't really count that because it's held up in a withdraw request I didn't lose it playing. Ok I did lose $30... so make it $100 online.)

But I had a good weekend - turned my $200 into $550 at $1/2 (oh wait did I just win your entire lifetime earnings? sorry...) so I'm feeling generous. Well here you go - here's a chance to possibly DOUBLE your life time winnings at cash games: I'm going to give you a second chance, and I'm going to double my offer. You bundle up your hand histories - all of em - and put $100 in escrow, and I will put TWO hundred in escrow, and stand by my original offer to video tape the entire process from start to finish. I'll post the video where everyone in the world can see it and you can review my process and ensure I stuck with my commitment. We'll both agree on a third party from this thread to determine when the funds can be released.

And because I'm so convinced that you're more interested in deluding yourself than owning up to the idea that maybe you aren't all that and a bag of chips, that maybe you just hit standard variance plus got out played, that I'm going to re-open my offer for a week. Yep, you heard me - one week. In fact - a bit more.

You have until 00:00 GMT 04 Feb 2014 - that is midnight in England at the end of Monday the 3rd (ie the midnight between Mon and Tue just so there is no confusion) - to accept this offer.

One you accept the offer, you will have 3 days to work out where we'll escrow the funds and agree upon a neutral third party judge, and then 2 days to provide me with the files and of course we will have to submit the funds to escrow.

Once the funds are in escrow and I have the files I will need a week to complete my analysis (because 1: I've never done this on a poker database before so I need to learn the model; 2: I don't know postgres so I have to get the tools, and 3: I have a day job) and post my findings.

To repeat the conditions to prove its rigged:
Quote:
We'll look at every hand where you :
1) Saw your opponents hole cards
2) Your opponent had a runner-runner straight draw on the flop (I'll have to do some work to figure out how to filter for that but I'm pretty good at database analysis so I can work it out)
3) Calculate how many of those cases where you saw the hole cards ended up making the straight

The odds of a runner-runner straight being made are at best a bit over 4%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_p...er-runner_outs - call it 1 in 20.

There's going to be some variance - depending on how many hands your histories contain I think some slighting adjustment for variance is necessary - say that if you have < 100 hands we can go as high as 10% (total 14%) but if you have > 5000 hands we shouldn't see more than 2%. (6% total). Lets call it a linear progression between 100-5000 simply cause I'm terrible at calculus and its easier for me to work out a straight line. Although I think it's actually a curve which means I'm giving you an edge here (I think - any statisticians in the house wanna comment?)

If the total number of made runner runner straights works out to a percentage GREATER than the estimated variance, you win the $100. If not, I get the $100 and you re-evaluate why you're losing. (I know I can't hold you to the last part)
Only now you stand to win $200 and only to lose $100 where I stand to lose $200 and you stand to lose $100.

That's the deal. I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I have 20 years experience in computer data analysis, so I'm up to the job, and I'm willing to eat $200 if you turn out to be right.

So put your money where your mouth is, whiner.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisoma
How you interpreted "here's how you can easily share you data" with "I'd be willing to comb through your hand histories" is a mystery.
It is a mystery because it is a fabrication of your own interpretation of my statement. I certainly do not expect you to do any free work for that whiny guy, but I tossed in some fake encouragement to him to amuse myself while knowing once he calms down he will never take the initiative to do a proper analysis in any way shape or form.

All the best.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisoma
How you interpreted "here's how you can easily share you data" with "I'd be willing to comb through your hand histories" is a mystery.
It is a mystery because it is a fabrication of your own interpretation of my statement.
lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Nice to see someone willing to do that.
I didn't say I was willing to do anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
Other options for you (if you do not trust bodhisoma and assume he will rig your data)
I didn't offer to touch GS' data.

You have some seriously eyebrow-raising control issues dude, you're beginning to give some of the riggies a run for their mental health money. Stop being an idiot and seek professional help.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisoma
I didn't say I was willing to do anything.
I was talking about the whiny riggie. You posted to him just before I did, so from my perspective your post surprisingly appeared between his post and mine. I tweaked mine after a bit to adjust for that, but I guess I left that part in and it could be a bit unclear that I was talking to him instead of you do to the timing of your post.

Let me be clear, I never expect you to do anything. Ever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisoma
You have some seriously eyebrow-raising control issues dude, you're beginning to give some of the riggies a run for their mental health money. Stop being an idiot and seek professional help.
Control of what? A meaningless riggie thread that is just a source of amusement? Anyone can do whatever they want within this thread as long as it adheres to loose forum guidelines (ie: no hate language, no contentless bad beat blogging etc).

If you need me to explain my posts in future using simple language I will so that you avoid any misinterpretation, and I will be diplomatic in assuming that you were channeling riggies with your personal insult flame as a means to mock them, with regard to how simple and emotional they react on the internet.

All the best.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 10:54 AM
How dare you insult the great Monty in his eternal quest to control this thread. To protect his ego, he will assume that the posts that you directed at him, quoting him, were intended to insult someone else.

He is the only person allowed to make up **** and post it in this thread, its his right as a poker coach and self proclaimed guru.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 11:06 AM
Your post reads like you are suggesting I insulted myself (since your post is right after mine), so you may want to learn how to use the quote function so others do not get confused, as we have seen that can happen rather easily with some people in this thread.

I personally have not actually coached anyone in years, so you may want to leave the year 2010 behind for future personal attacks in that specific area, so as not to sound that out of touch.

I never pretend people trying to insult me are insulting others, I just keep hoping someone gets more creative and funny when trying to insult me, that's all. If anyone does I will be the first one to compliment those efforts, but for now all I see are posts like yours which are basically whiny frustrated, hissy fits.

Try again and if you do a better job I will certainly let you know. I like helping those who need it when I can.

All the best.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 11:29 AM
Keep trying to maintain control by making things up and pointing out how inferior everyone's posts are compared to yours.

You clearly don't recognize boring and whiney because you continue to post the same drivel week after week.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 11:43 AM
I appreciate you tried again to use insults, but you clearly need more help. Why don't you PM some of the other people who are frustrated like you and perhaps combined the bunch of you can form a think tank of sorts and come up with something that has some actual punch to it. You can even call yourself the Superfriends or something if that empowers you.

I will pop in late this evening to see if any of you individually or together could muster something actually witty for a change. Have a nice day.


All the best.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 11:54 AM
I run away when I realize people don't think I am as cool and interesting as I do too. No think tank required to understand your m.o.

I didn't realize that 2010 was the end of your coaching career and your last interesting and original post. RIP to both. Perhaps you should post your updated resume so we can appreciate your greatness and contributions to humanity.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote
01-27-2014 , 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
I was talking about the whiny riggie. You posted to him just before I did, so from my perspective your post surprisingly appeared between his post and mine. I tweaked mine after a bit to adjust for that, but I guess I left that part in and it could be a bit unclear that I was talking to him instead of you do to the timing of your post.

Let me be clear, I never expect you to do anything. Ever.




Control of what? A meaningless riggie thread that is just a source of amusement? Anyone can do whatever they want within this thread as long as it adheres to loose forum guidelines (ie: no hate language, no contentless bad beat blogging etc).

If you need me to explain my posts in future using simple language I will so that you avoid any misinterpretation, and I will be diplomatic in assuming that you were channeling riggies with your personal insult flame as a means to mock them, with regard to how simple and emotional they react on the internet.

All the best.
It's painful to think someone this old is this insecure. Dude has more issues than an Irish wedding.
The great &quot;Poker is rigged&quot; debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
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