This is a good example of the difference between riggies and "shills":

Shills ask for evidence of the simplest claims and tend not to believe anything without evidence, while riggies will gladly take as Gospel literally anything that enforces their beliefs, even a YouTube video claiming to show a free tool to hack the Stars RNG.

Nice marmot. 8D

Gotta say, my enjoyment of this thread has increased a thousandfold once I realized it's best enjoyed like a train wreck; much nicer to drive by it slowly than it is to be IN the mofo.

Granted, it's easy voyeuristic masturbation, sort of like karmic Mac & Cheese. But damn, it's hard to not feel better about yourself as a human after catching up.

Replying to the rigs with an eye toward logical discourse is like arguing with a Morton Downey Jr. audience by writing on the TV glass with a Sharpie. Waste of a good Sharpie.

How do you know your whole cards,the flop-turn-river are REAL?

Well,they are NOT,never have been,never will be...
They are an illusion created by a virtual software,using an rng which isn't truly random,cause it cant (?) be.

The only fair and truly random poker game is played with a 'flesh and blood' deck of cards.
These are FACTS,ladies and gentlemen.

I ain't never been dealt half a card.

How do we know you're real?

You had me at UPPERCASE.

ALRIGHT EVERYONE, PACK IT IN, ATB HAS DECLARED WHAT IS.

Whew.

Ah, the favorite moronically wrong thing riggies love to trot out.
I sure hope Real Deal comes back, they must have been fair and truly random.

Obviously meant to type holecards,but i see this is the biggest issue for you

It isn't wrong otatop,it is damn true.

Anyways,im outta here i posted what i felt to,most of U guys can't be helped.

Do you have any concept of what a massive different there is between running a bot on your own computer and hacking into a poker site's servers and altering the play?

No, you don't. What you hear about all the time are people who initially claim their account has been hacked, and it pretty much always turns out that their email or computer was hacked or otherwise accessed, which allowed the scammer to obtain their poker site information and take their money.

You should let the dummies at Intel know that what they've made can't exist, then.

The problem with a card reader, as you describe it, is that there is no reason whatsoever for the hole cards of any other player to be sent to a poker client prior to showdown.

I can tell you, as a software developer, that such a thing would fail the first level of review/audit in the companies I have worked for, even on systems that did not deal with money or have particular security concerns.

The software in the video you linked would have every chance of being able to read YOUR hole cards and send them to someone else, and I suspect it would have a good chance of catching your online banking logins as well as your pokerstars login ...

What are you talking about? What bot stole "millions"?

Are you saying that there's a banned piece of software that has been redesigned or trivially altered, and is allowed?

Could you please provide an example of this, or clarify what you are saying?

It's not possible to "alter the RNG".
Of course no one has been successful at it, because there's no evidence of it, and it's not possible.

What evidence do you have of this?

PokerStars sends emails to players very often notifying players that they have been cheated, and providing compensation for that activity. That's hardly unusual, it happens almost daily.
Can you give an example of one of these so-called "security issues"?

Simply because you don't know how to create a truly random RNG does not mean it is impossible.

Your own limitations do not apply to other people - on this issue, there are apparently a whole lot of people who are more expert than you are.

It is possible to create a truly random RNG, and you are simply wrong.

Given that obviously you don't know much about creating truly random number generators, I suggest that you start by reading the Wikipedia article on the issue here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generator

Your so-called "facts" are not facts at all - Your so-called "facts" are just your own misinformed beliefs.

I don't know if running a bot that just makes decisions is unethical at all. If all it is doing is using available information to all then that is not rigged/scam.

Most people would consider breaking the rules to be unethical, and bots are terrible for poker. But I'd agree that it's got nothing to do with rigging.

There was a tiny thing in the sentence u first quoted from me.
It is called a question mark.It looked like this (?)
It had a meaning.

On topic,yeah i am sure there is still some discussion going on in the science world about the true randomness of that thing,but if its totally random that does not either help our case.
Sites do use different rngs.Very different ones

Can't believe how many posts this thread has.

Is this even still a debate?

It is obvious that any of the big sites are not rigged.

It's only small stakes losers and uneducated players that think this.

Ask Ben Tollerene if he thinks Full Tilt is rigged when he lost over a million the other week. He got real unlucky in a lot of hands.

Instead of complaining the site was rigged he came back the next again day to ride out the variance and win some back.

We'd have preferred evidence but we only got your poor grammar.

And oh my, what a loss that'll be.

Newsflash:not everyone is born speaking English as their native language.

Obvious mistype is obvious,but i see u have to be rude.
Just make sure U dont fall off your high horse.

Nobody is born speaking English as their native language. You make so many grammatical, spelling and usage errors that saying any one of them is an 'obvious typo' is a joke. However, if your arguments were compelling, people would ignore this; they aren't. Don't expect anyone to mourn your leaving.

I thought you were leaving.

It's hard to miss you when you won't go away.

When you follow it with
and then when told you're wrong, reply
it kind of makes it hard for you to dodge out of what you said by saying you weren't sure if you were right.

"The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell

Its all bull they know too. We all know so you can't take online poker serious its just recreational fun.

Who would ever recognize an existing rig if they were running good. That's not how human psychology works. Of course they will believe they're the next Phil Ivey- until the rig says the party is over for that particular player.

There was a group of russian run bots that got about 1.5-1.9 million off stars that lasted a little over 3-4 months.

What I meant is there are endless revisions to these softwares once they are banned and just find a new company name/program till that one gets banned as well but they do work for a little while obviously too say they don't is highly naive.

Why is it so impossible? It's a RNG run by a software that was developped by a company with employees. Why couldn't someone that built or has built similar software exploit it?

Can you give an example of one of these so-called "security issues"?

How about Antonius getting scammed by trojans, Negreanu's account being hacked and dumped for thousands and just chalking it up too a loss because it was done through hotmail lucky enough for him the guy didn't dump more than 60k because pstars isn't covering anything imagine the guy dumping 6 figures and stars just saying oh ya that's your fault we offer no security to you if someone steals your account login/pass without your consent. That's on Pstars is hands how the **** does someone login with your pass transfer money out of your account from your name too someones other bank account/company without stars even remotely being suspicious or even sitting at tables and dumping it too other players?? Wether it's P2P transfer or somoene hacking your account pokerstars assumes no liability so what exactly does their security do. It's a 3 billion dollar business but you can't figure out how to even protect your own pros money from being transfered out of his account or dumped at the tables and won't even cover the loss of a measily 60k that's ridiculous absurd, pathetic and so damn shady. If all you need is someone's login/pass to dump their entire account then hell everyones account is vulnerable. There are endless programs that will pick up your login/pass if you are open wifi even wep/wpa protected wifi I'm sure you know that it is so damn easy to get someones login/pass. They need a much stricter security team.

You yourself are responsible for the security on your own computer. Blaming Pokerstars, Amazon.com, or any company for money lost on those accounts caused by the keylogger you acquired looking at gay donkey porn is beyond absurd. And calling it a Pokerstars or Amazon security issue is even more ridiculous. Good companies do their best to keep your accounts safe on their end but there is only so much they can do with regards to the security on your end.

What does amazon have to do with anything? If someone wanted your login/pass to your stars account it is so damn easy to do it's not even funny that is complete out of the users hands. Good thing banks don't use the same dumbass logic when your account is frauded or the whole economy would be drained lol. The only people that can control what goes in and out of your account is pokerstars and not the user it is on stars hands if money is being taking out illegally. Besides they have insurance for this exact thing not like paying anything back is coming out of pocket.

Not too mention somehow stars let's a hacked account deposit with a CC in someone else name/address/state/country with no security taking a hint and charging the account owner for a chargeback on a fake CC that was never in their name. A monkey could have figured that out and not authorized the transaction somehow stars security let's it slide how can you possibly miss that?

Loling at people trying to haaaarrr at security on the internet in the thread about RNG.

Dat lack of chromosomes.