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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,502 34.89%
No
5,607 55.86%
Undecided
929 9.25%

08-02-2012 , 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth90
new people to poker usually start out in limit.
This hasn't been true for a long time.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 08:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by czechraiser
If we take out the word exponentially and replace it with quickly or even tremendously, why is it so hard to believe, particularly if we don't know what stakes someone started at? My winnings certainly have not grown exponentially over the last three years but they have grown reasonably. As one gets better and moves up in stakes and adds hours, I would think that a six-year growth period is more than possible.
If you take out the word 'exponentially' it is at least possible to believe. But games have got a lot harder over the last 6 years and I just find it surprising that someone who wastes time thinking that sites are rigged would have put in the work needed to buck the trend. And, remember, all I said was that I wouldn't be surprised if what he said was a lie. Not that I was convinced it was.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkus63
If you take out the word 'exponentially' it is at least possible to believe. But games have got a lot harder over the last 6 years and I just find it surprising that someone who wastes time thinking that sites are rigged would have put in the work needed to buck the trend. And, remember, all I said was that I wouldn't be surprised if what he said was a lie. Not that I was convinced it was.
Thanks, that makes sense. Just thought I was missing something--I also didn't realize prolific was a riggie; haven't paid enough attention to his posts. I generally find myself in agreement with yours but this particular one I didn't quite get. Now I do and agree with the reasoning. The games getting harder is definitely true, but it all comes down to the relative difference between one's ability and the toughness of the games--which makes me truly embarrassed at my results 15 or so years ago when I used to regularly play live games in San Jose, Ca (Full ring, five or more players routinely going to showdown, lol).
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Me A River
This hasn't been true for a long time.
That's true of nearly everything he says in any of his posts--either a long time or ever.

Smooth, most people started with limit because it used to be the only game spread in card rooms for cash play. No longer true and with the majority of new players coming to poker due to seeing it on tv, the game they look for is what they saw, thus they start with NL. Do you really believe you are a 'poker expert' as you claimed in a previous post?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 09:50 AM
At least the riggies are branching out in their theories as to when the doomswitch is applied. So far we have Merge rigging it for your first hour of play, and now Smooth thinks it's only rigged against you once you're a certain age.

Wait, does that mean Smooth's theory is it's rigged against old guys playing limit? I'd be for that rig, tbh.
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08-02-2012 , 10:53 AM
What's rigged is the core essence of capitalism, that's what's rigged.
You can easily wake up tomorrow and find out that for example your money on PokerStars is not longer available for whatever reasons, same can happen with your money in some bank.

It's like turning on the evening news and they tell you 'Good evening' and then they proceed to tell you all the reasons why it's not a good evening.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth90
Personally (after playing many years at brick and mortar games) I have no doubt I was victim of the doomswitch (playing limit stakes) after cashing out. I'm not sure of no limit games and tournaments (although the very first poster in this thread complained of a great amount of bad beats to him 2 to 3 hours into tournaments) but at limit there is no doubt for me.
Let's imagine the FBI or NGC or whoever you prefer is actively looking into potential rigging. After reading your posts they think you seem like a reasonable and intelligent guy and as you have no doubt that rigging is going on, they are interested in anything you can tell them to help.

What information would you give them? How would you actually illustrate why you have no doubt?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 01:56 PM
I'm no riggie. All shill baby.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 02:21 PM
The biggest problem riggies face is that they are just average players. They're good enough to beat some friends and terrible live players, the problem they face is adjusting to the competition of online poker, online poker allows them access to the very best of the competition. The live competition they get at home pales in comparison to when they get online. They play only they're cards, not their opponents, over play QQ JJ AQ AJ A10 and dont really have the ability to read the other players at the table very well. And when someone finally gets AA they wouldnt be able to fold QQ or KK if their opponent showed their cards to them pre-flop
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProlificSharter
I'm no riggie. All shill baby.
In that case please ignore my comment about not being surprised if you were lying. I didn't believe that anyone who was distracting themselves from improving their play by obsessing about a rigged deal would have improved enough to beat the tougher games over six years.

Sorry I didn't check which side you were on. I must have misremembered. (The name doesn't help.)
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 02:48 PM
No probs. Im actually going to create a new acc and have this as a gimmick because the name is indeed ridiculous and doesnt help at all. No-one takes me seriously lol :'(

Fwiw i dont shart prolificly but when i was making a new acc after i lost my old one in the hacking scandal a friend of mine who does shart now and again was the topic of conversation.

Now to think of a new user friendly, mature acc name.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrod
The biggest problem riggies face is that they are just average players. They're good enough to beat some friends and terrible live players, the problem they face is adjusting to the competition of online poker, online poker allows them access to the very best of the competition. The live competition they get at home pales in comparison to when they get online. They play only they're cards, not their opponents, over play QQ JJ AQ AJ A10 and dont really have the ability to read the other players at the table very well. And when someone finally gets AA they wouldnt be able to fold QQ or KK if their opponent showed their cards to them pre-flop
QFT. As much as the riggies love to say they're great players, the evidence (uh oh, I said the "E" word) shows the exact opposite. I've never seen a riggie post a hand that wasn't either a standard boring beat ("Waaaah, I lost with AA!") or hilariously misplayed on every street. I've also never seen a riggie post in any of the strategy forums, they seem to exclusively just whine about losing instead of making any attempt to improve their game.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth90
There is always the possibility the sites aren't dumb enough to put everyone on the doomswitch but let's say 80%. Also why not just put good players over a certain age on the doomswitch. That way there would be some good players who aren't affected until they reach a certain age.
Why would they need to put 80% of players on the doomswitch? 70% of players can't beat the rake anyway.
The best 30% of players make money because they are better than average, and have an edge over their opponents that is greater than the rake they pay.
The rake in fixed limit games (and PLO too) is so brutal that very few players can make a profit in those games. No doomswitches are required. The games have become tougher over the years (average skill level has risen) while the rake structure is as brutal as ever.

The idea that players get doomswitched because of their age is just LOL. If you want anyone to believe that, find some graphs of players of a certain age, and show us exactly when they crossed the threshold into the "doom years".
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08-02-2012 , 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProlificSharter
Been laughing for 6 years. Been a regular winner for 6 years and win more and more year on year exponentially. I'm worried they might doomswitch me when i hit 35 tho now.
I got a good laugh from this also. The second sentence that is.
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08-02-2012 , 06:44 PM
BR you would not know exponential growth from **** growth
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrod
The biggest problem riggies face is that they are just average players. They're good enough to beat some friends and terrible live players, the problem they face is adjusting to the competition of online poker, online poker allows them access to the very best of the competition. The live competition they get at home pales in comparison to when they get online. They play only they're cards, not their opponents, over play QQ JJ AQ AJ A10 and dont really have the ability to read the other players at the table very well. And when someone finally gets AA they wouldnt be able to fold QQ or KK if their opponent showed their cards to them pre-flop

I'm sure you are referring to players like yourself. That 57% rating with 100 dollars in winnings and a $-257 in earnings in cash games is a huge problem for us riggies. Just can't beat the very best of the competition......
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProlificSharter
No probs. Im actually going to create a new acc and have this as a gimmick because the name is indeed ridiculous and doesnt help at all. No-one takes me seriously lol :'(

Fwiw i dont shart prolificly but when i was making a new acc after i lost my old one in the hacking scandal a friend of mine who does shart now and again was the topic of conversation.

Now to think of a new user friendly, mature acc name.
I have a much better solution for you:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/55...-post-1198491/
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-02-2012 , 08:42 PM
[QUOTE=ProlificSharter;34077425]I'm no riggie. All shill baby.[/QUOTE]

Posting the truth must have been tough for you. Think you could do it one more time??
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08-02-2012 , 10:49 PM
I just stopped playing at PokerStars forever after having 80-90% of my sessions rigged; they have made their balancing system of not to let anyone win too much still tighter and it's not possible to beat even the whole rake anymore.
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08-02-2012 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6471849653
I just stopped playing at PokerStars forever after having 80-90% of my sessions rigged; they have made their balancing system of not to let anyone win too much still tighter and it's not possible to beat even the whole rake anymore.
Sensible decision well done. I do expect other ps players will miss the income and I bet Stars are really worried about how to pay their dues to the DoJ now they are missing your $3.50 rake per month but this really is the most sensible thing you or any other riggie can do.

Damn I hate being on early shill shift.
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08-03-2012 , 12:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J9Suited
Sensible decision well done. I do expect other ps players will miss the income and I bet Stars are really worried about how to pay their dues to the DoJ now they are missing your $3.50 rake per month but this really is the most sensible thing you or any other riggie can do.
That's the best part, really. Most riggies have probably paid an insignificant amount of lifetime rake, so even if the sites had it out for them, they wouldn't make **** off of it. All the rigging would be just to **** some morons out of their money for the benefit of other players, which seems pretty generous of the sites tbh.
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08-03-2012 , 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
I'm sure you are referring to players like yourself. That 57% rating with 100 dollars in winnings and a $-257 in earnings in cash games is a huge problem for us riggies. Just can't beat the very best of the competition......
I do not have any proof if online poker is rigged or not, and I have to say it does not bother me at all, because I have already made a decent amount of money by playing poker online. I have been concerned lately with these past scandals so I will linger in this thread a bit and read from both sides of the debate.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-03-2012 , 01:07 AM
What is killing online poker, if it hasn't already been killed, is the balancing system used by all sites (these days and for years already - before they just simply used to kick the biggest winners out), and it used to allow minimum winnings at some sites but that too is not at every place and the rake is killing whatever one is allowed to win if any.

This is the problem and the reason why I might have to stop playing completely, there being no reason to play anymore. I am still hoping some sites might allow small winnings but I have looked into most already and it has come to the point of impossible to win any at most sites.

I have tested it at easy levels also that I should be killing but the balancing system is giving me just more and more bad beats the easier the game is, counting out maybe some too easy games where it's impossible to lose even to maximum rigged cards.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-03-2012 , 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6471849653
What is killing online poker, if it hasn't already been killed, is the balancing system used by all sites (these days and for years already - before they just simply used to kick the biggest winners out), and it used to allow minimum winnings at some sites but that too is not at every place and the rake is killing whatever one is allowed to win if any.

This is the problem and the reason why I might have to stop playing completely, there being no reason to play anymore. I am still hoping some sites might allow small winnings but I have looked into most already and it has come to the point of impossible to win any at most sites.

I have tested it at easy levels also that I should be killing but the balancing system is giving me just more and more bad beats the easier the game is, counting out maybe some too easy games where it's impossible to lose even to maximum rigged cards.
Are you completely unaware that many many people are making a hell of a lot of money across all poker sites right now as we speak??
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
08-03-2012 , 01:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6471849653
What is killing online poker, if it hasn't already been killed, is the balancing system used by all sites (these days and for years already - before they just simply used to kick the biggest winners out), and it used to allow minimum winnings at some sites but that too is not at every place and the rake is killing whatever one is allowed to win if any.

This is the problem and the reason why I might have to stop playing completely, there being no reason to play anymore. I am still hoping some sites might allow small winnings but I have looked into most already and it has come to the point of impossible to win any at most sites.

I have tested it at easy levels also that I should be killing but the balancing system is giving me just more and more bad beats the easier the game is, counting out maybe some too easy games where it's impossible to lose even to maximum rigged cards.
We're all dying to know how they're doing it. Let's see a clear explaination and data to back it up.
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