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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,517 34.90%
No
5,623 55.80%
Undecided
937 9.30%

07-30-2012 , 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by totaltool
This is actually true in two ways:

1. I have found on Merge that the "better" players (although how can one be differentiated as better when the site is rigged is difficult for me to say) tend to last longer in the tournaments and, therefore, have larger chip stacks near the end.

2. This one is indisputable: As tournaments progress on merge, the chip stacks of remaining players ALWAYS seems to increase. I am in the process of gathering up some evidence utilizing my 5 free searches, but I do intend on posting more in detail and, of course, in a professional way after I accumulate enough data. Side note: The same phonomena seems to happen in SNG; "better" players at the end with more chips. Weird.
Very good. You had me going for a minute there.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazzle
Not really calling internet poker rigged but got a couple fishy hands yesterday playing Zoom.

AA on 2 tables. Both flops come out KJQ. Was kind of like O_o
What would have been a more "random" flop?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by totaltool
This is actually true in two ways:

1. I have found on Merge that the "better" players (although how can one be differentiated as better when the site is rigged is difficult for me to say) tend to last longer in the tournaments and, therefore, have larger chip stacks near the end.

2. This one is indisputable: As tournaments progress on merge, the chip stacks of remaining players ALWAYS seems to increase. I am in the process of gathering up some evidence utilizing my 5 free searches, but I do intend on posting more in detail and, of course, in a professional way after I accumulate enough data. Side note: The same phonomena seems to happen in SNG; "better" players at the end with more chips. Weird.
That post was about PokerStars. The concept I am talking about is really simple. Let's say I am in first place in a tournament with 100,000 in chips. If the average stack in that tournament is only 13000 I would have a big advantage if I were seated at tables randomly. The seating is not random. The software recognizes stack size as one of the factors to determine where to seat you. So I am very likely to end up at a table with stacks above the average stack size in the tournament.

It might be something like this:

100,000
59,000
46000
40000
21000
18000
17000
13000


If I am the person in first place that greatly reduces my ability to steal blinds and call all ins because I have to risk a larger percentage of my chips to do so. If the seating reflected the average stack size for the entire tournament I would be able to use the advantage better.

Last edited by northeastbeast2; 07-30-2012 at 12:34 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 12:28 PM
So pokerstars is rigged, but not so rigged that your superior skill couldn't beat it, but merge is soooooo rigged that even you can't beat it?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 12:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by totaltool
So pokerstars is rigged, but not so rigged that your superior skill couldn't beat it, but merge is soooooo rigged that even you can't beat it?
Let's say you have a player pool of a 100 players that represent the majority of players for a buy in level or game type. The game type would be playing in 1 and 2 dollar hyper turbo sngs on the Merge Network. 95 percent of those players or more have overall losing records in sngs.

That is why I posted the chart of that player because he has a winning record in those games and he also has an overall losing record in sngs on that site over a pretty large sample of about 8000 games. That duality existing starts to become a red flag when you consider both the nature of his chart and the other contributing factor that almost all of the players are losing overall in sngs. When you combine that information with the fact that I have a winning long term record in those types of games and in games with buys as much as 25x higher it starts to call into question how my losses are occurring against a player pool who are all losing at poker overall.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by northeastbeast2
That post was about PokerStars. The concept I am talking about is really simple. Let's say I am in first place in a tournament with 100,000 in chips. If the average stack in that tournament is only 13000 I would have a big advantage if I were seated at tables randomly. The seating is not random. The software recognizes stack size as one of the factors to determine where to seat you. So I am very likely to end up at a table with stacks above the average stack size in the tournament.

It might be something like this:

100,000
59,000
46000
40000
21000
18000
17000
13000


If I am the person in first place that greatly reduces my ability to steal blinds and call all ins because I have to risk a larger percentage of my chips to do so. If the seating reflected the average stack size for the entire tournament I would be able to use the advantage better.
That's not rigging against you though is it. If you think that genuinely does help bad players and the site realise that is the case and do it intentionally, I think that would be legal rigging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northeastbeast2
Let's say you have a player pool of a 100 players that represent the majority of players for a buy in level or game type. The game type would be playing in 1 and 2 dollar hyper turbo sngs on the Merge Network. 95 percent of those players or more have overall losing records in sngs.

That is why I posted the chart of that player because he has a winning record in those games and he also has an overall losing record in sngs on that site over a pretty large sample of about 8000 games. That duality existing starts to become a red flag when you consider both the nature of his chart and the other contributing factor that almost all of the players are losing overall in sngs. When you combine that information with the fact that I have a winning long term record in those types of games and in games with buys as much as 25x higher it starts to call into question how my losses are occurring against a player pool who are all losing at poker overall.
Aside from the fact that you probably just made that number up, exactly what perecentage of players would you expect to be winners in 2012, on a reg filled site, in low-edge hyper turbo games?

Last edited by Bingo_Boy; 07-30-2012 at 01:18 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by northeastbeast2
Let's say you have a player pool of a 100 players that represent the majority of players for a buy in level or game type. The game type would be playing in 1 and 2 dollar hyper turbo sngs on the Merge Network. 95 percent of those players or more have overall losing records in sngs.

That is why I posted the chart of that player because he has a winning record in those games and he also has an overall losing record in sngs on that site over a pretty large sample of about 8000 games. That duality existing starts to become a red flag when you consider both the nature of his chart and the other contributing factor that almost all of the players are losing overall in sngs. When you combine that information with the fact that I have a winning long term record in those types of games and in games with buys as much as 25x higher it starts to call into question how my losses are occurring against a player pool who are all losing at poker overall.
I think what you're saying (again) is that when people move up in stakes, play gets more skillful and weaker players lose. Hence, the chart you uncovered showed the not atypical occurrence of a player beating microstakes, shot taking higher and losing, then dropping down and grinding it back up again.

I think you have also uncovered that the games, generally, are tougher to beat now than they were a few years back. I'm sure you were beating pokerstars sng when there were more fish in the pool. Now, the play is better, your ego won't allow you to accept that you have not improved your game at a necessary level to beat microstakes currently, therefore you've concluded in ego-protectionist fashion that it must be rigged.

I used to play 100NL and lol clean up. I cannot beat 100 NL anymore as the skill level is drastically different now. So, I changed game format and dropped down in buyin level to find games I can beat. Your problem is that there are currently no real money games you can beat. I feel badly for you about that and suggest you dig in, study, redeposit and find a way to succeed.

You will never get your money back from your current tactic/delusion that strongly worded posts and calls to gov entities will cause merge to cave and pay your ransom. However, a man of your intelligence should be able to make some adjustments/improvements to your game and get get back in there to reclaim what is rightfully yours.

And, yes, most poker players (most charts) are losing charts. I think it has something to do with the rake...
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
That's not rigging against you though is it. If you think that genuinely does help bad players and the site realise that is the case and do it intentionally, I think that would be legal rigging.
Yeah they openly admit it. There was a another person that thinks it is rigged more directly and I was offering information to show how subtle things can influence the results of a game.

It is not rigging against anyone in particular but it is probably something that should be changed.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 01:37 PM
While I am mildly curious to how you constructed this crazy table change rigging/belief system, how it actually works is like this.

When in an MTT or multi person sit and go on Stars whenever the number of players left is a factor of 9 plus 1 (ie: 28, 37, 46 etc) when the next person gets eliminated that specific table breaks.

They then move all of the players from that table to other tables so that they are in the same position (or close) as they were in the past table. If you were about to pay the BB then you could be moved to an under the gun position on another table or one that will pay the big blind the next hand.

Stack sizes have not a single thing to do with it and if you showed me a tournament with 28 left and told me who was being eliminated I could tell you exactly which seats the players being moved would go into on the other 3 tables. Better players know this and adjust the speed of their play based on which table they want to break and which spot they know they would be moved to if a KO takes place on their own table (an example of this was when I time banked 30 seconds where two players were all in because that allowed me to get moved to the small stack table if the KO took place which it did, and had I let the hand play out quicker I would have been moved to the table with all of the bigger stacks).

Another way seat changes take place is if one table has 2 more empty seats than another table in which case it picks one of the players from a table that just finished a hand to fill one of those seats based on the position of that player.


Not all rooms are as good as Stars in this and in fact I remember one MTT way back in the days on the Cryptologic network where I got moved 5 hands in a row and paid a BB, SB, BB, under the gun and BB in 5 consecutive hands late in an MTT. That was not fun, and it was basically bad software design that that could happen to anyone. They are out of business now for a reason.

I would ask you what data and proof you have to back your whole stack based table switch craziness, but we have already seen you will not even bother getting a sharkscope membership when suggesting other players are cheaters, so obviously you will not have anything specific to offer as evidence, rather you will preach vague charts and mystical beliefs.

Riggies are addicted at looking for patterns, but I have to say they are amazingly bad at even seeing them when they do exist.

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 02:03 PM
Lol played for a 11 dollar ticket on merge last night because i was bored. Won the ticket.

Played in the 1250 gtd deepstack, just busted out after grinding for a few hours.

How?

in the BB had K10 spades. Flop 2s4s9s.i check, button bluffs, i call. Turn is a 10c. i all in. Guy whos been watching me play tight (only showed a set and AA) calls with As6c.

River? Spade. lol

12 hands later get QQ. Raise all in for 18 bbs UTG +2, guy behind me all ins with 3 other bigger stacks behind him. he has 88. Result? He four flushes to take me out.

This ALWAYS happens to me here, never fails.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 02:18 PM
Quit poker and develop you career as a professional whiner. You may as well do something you have innate ability in for a change.

Go ahead and post your bad beats in the bad beat forum and see the warm reply they get because they are truly that impressive. The slow play with the flopped flush when an opponent could very well have the As was masterful and worthy of a TV series, probably because of the way you (while fist pumping) probably priced him in to make the call he did.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...rags-variance/

Who are we kidding, you will never have the courage to post that drivel there , especially how you even got mocked in of all places the poker challenge forum with your world class thread of the following:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...outer-1227673/


All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 02:22 PM
Another thing.....

On the first beat, the software stalled for 3 or 4 seconds before dealing the 4th spade.

I never see this unless its a bad beat.

The player i was up against played responsibly, didnt make wild crazy plays, his stats are ok on OPR, until this one hand.

The player who sucked out with 88, same, didnt make any crazy calls from behind until he raised all in behind against me. He also four flushed.

The answer is not better players. Both these players made horrible calls and won.

Merge is a scam site, period. All you have to do is watch the way the cards fall and you know its not a fair deal. Its so hilariously obvious that youd really have to be insane to think its not a scam

*

Lmao priced him in? i had 6700 in chips, he had 4900. 50/100 blinds, when i put him all in he was invester for 700.

He called 4200 with one card to go on a four flush with no pair.

This happens way too much here. I have no reason to lie at all.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 07-30-2012 at 03:49 PM. Reason: 2 posts merged
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 02:27 PM
Since you are incapable of utilizing your brilliant "software stall" pattern that would make you money if true (since it basically tells you the opponent hand), what you should do now is cash out and never play another single hand of online poker ever again.

Your posting history shows you have zero skill, and since you cannot even use these simplistic rigs you believe in for profit then what hope do you have? You will never make any money at poker (which riggies believe is true for everyone), and even you whine about how you cannot make money.

Stop playing online poker. Stop right now. Not tommorow, not later this week, stop now and never play another hand for as long as you live.


Best advice you will get in the thread, but fortunately for the poker economy the donk degens just like you will never follow it. No doubt you will play more this week and whine about it to a world that does not care. Keep up that good work. Maybe start a new goals thread - your last one sure was well received.

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 02:47 PM
You think im a "donk" for consistently getting my money in way ahead and getting sucked out on all the time?

You are obviously a horrible player who has absolutely no clue about the game. You cant even use the correct vernacular.

My post and your reply = you are working an angle. Thats awesome, god bless however you make your money, but buddy, if you EVER want to get taken play me at foxwoods.

Im there nearly every weekend throughout the summer. Youre a bum at poker, i can tell. Bring 5k, i'll take every cent.

But you wont. Why? This is literally all you can do. When it comes to real poker in the real world youre a chump, plain and simple. This is the only place you can feel like you assert control over anything, the only place you can insult anyone without them laughing at you or smacking you around.

The saddest thing is that soon online poker will be legal and regulated in the US. Scam sites like merge and others wont have anyone playing at them and the only way you can feel like youre important will dwindle then disappear.

PM me for details on the foxwoods trip. Ill have my GF tape me raping you at the tables so everyone here can see how you behave in person, in front of a real poker player who will smack the life out of you if you get the least bit rude.

But you wont. This is it for you. This is the only place you can be this way.

All the best chump.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsTasteBad
in the BB had K10 spades. Flop 2s4s9s.i check, button bluffs, i call. Turn is a 10c. i all in. Guy whos been watching me play tight (only showed a set and AA) calls with As6c.
Please post this hand history in a strategy forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsTasteBad
12 hands later get QQ. Raise all in for 18 bbs UTG +2, guy behind me all ins with 3 other bigger stacks behind him. he has 88. Result? He four flushes to take me out.
This one too!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsTasteBad

This ALWAYS happens to me here
No it doesn't

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsTasteBad

PM me for details on the foxwoods trip. Ill have my GF tape me raping you at the tables so everyone here can see how you behave in person, in front of a real poker player who will smack the life out of you if you get the least bit rude.
What does this mean? Smacking somebody for calling you stupid doesn't stop you being stupid you know.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Me A River
Please post this hand history in a strategy forum.



This one too!
Why? From what ive seen here, this is a place to get people to buy in to Scam , oops i mean Merge, poker or its a place for geeky keyboard warriors to feel some kind of importance in a life that sadly lacks it.

I post anything in hand strategy ill simply get trolled by guys who will try to convince me why getting my money in way ahead was a bad move. Seems pointless.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsTasteBad
My post and your reply = you are working an angle. Thats awesome, god bless however you make your money, but buddy, if you EVER want to get taken play me at foxwoods.
Pretty empty statement even by Internet tough-guy standards considering the chance he's within driving distance of Foxwoods is extremely slim. (And I doubt they'd spread HU anyway).
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsTasteBad
Another thing.....

On the first beat, the software stalled for 3 or 4 seconds before dealing the 4th spade.

I never see this unless its a bad beat.

The player i was up against played responsibly, didnt make wild crazy plays, his stats are ok on OPR, until this one hand.

The player who sucked out with 88, same, didnt make any crazy calls from behind until he raised all in behind against me. He also four flushed.

The answer is not better players. Both these players made horrible calls and won.

Merge is a scam site, period. All you have to do is watch the way the cards fall and you know its not a fair deal. Its so hilariously obvious that youd really have to be insane to think its not a scam
But what's the scam? Enrage a player of your considerable skill (which anyone can witness, and get taped, during most summer weekends at foxwoods- nice touch btw) so that he never plays there again, thereby reducing their player base?

Are you suggesting that despite the software being rigged against you (as evidenced by spades being dealt after the flop and an underpair beating an overpair) that you still are showing a profit and that the riggedness is redistributing your monies to players who otherwise could not stay in the game?

I'm honestly curious what you think the reason is for this conspiracy against you?

And before you offer, I live in FL so I won't be able to drive up to foxwoods so your gf can tape your thinly veiled homoerotic fantasy of "raping" a man at the poker table. Sorry m8
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsTasteBad
I post anything in hand strategy ill simply get trolled by guys who will try to convince me why getting my money in way ahead was a bad move. Seems pointless.
How would you know? Have you ever even read any of the strategy forums? You've sure never posted in one...
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsTasteBad
You think im a "donk" for consistently getting my money in way ahead and getting sucked out on all the time?
Every post you've made has made it abundantly clear you're a fish who overestimates his abilities, most notably you bragging about spinning up $50 to $4800 on Bodog, and you whining about super standard boring "beats".
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsTasteBad
You think im a "donk" for consistently getting my money in way ahead and getting sucked out on all the time?

You are obviously a horrible player who has absolutely no clue about the game. You cant even use the correct vernacular.

My post and your reply = you are working an angle. Thats awesome, god bless however you make your money, but buddy, if you EVER want to get taken play me at foxwoods.

Im there nearly every weekend throughout the summer. Youre a bum at poker, i can tell. Bring 5k, i'll take every cent.

But you wont. Why? This is literally all you can do. When it comes to real poker in the real world youre a chump, plain and simple. This is the only place you can feel like you assert control over anything, the only place you can insult anyone without them laughing at you or smacking you around.

The saddest thing is that soon online poker will be legal and regulated in the US. Scam sites like merge and others wont have anyone playing at them and the only way you can feel like youre important will dwindle then disappear.

PM me for details on the foxwoods trip. Ill have my GF tape me raping you at the tables so everyone here can see how you behave in person, in front of a real poker player who will smack the life out of you if you get the least bit rude.

But you wont. This is it for you. This is the only place you can be this way.

All the best chump.

Extremely tempting to consider flying to foxwoods to meet some random dude with a net worth of under $5,000 to participate in some type of fetish video for you and your "girlfriend."

Your offer is nearly as exciting as this guy's offer

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...-diego-618446/


You got laughed out of the poker goals forum, and nobody gets laughed out of that forum. People cheer on guys trying to earn $100 at poker. They laughed at you.

You are the new online donk, and a ton of guys with entitlement tilt like you have exist and they keep the games healthy for now until the US gets properly legislated.

Know what will happen when the US is the market it should be? I will back hundreds of players on it and you will be the feedstock to them at that time just like you are to the ones I back on the current networks. Essentially you are cattle.

As amusingly angry as you are, I am happy guys like you continue to exist. Keep playing online, and keep whining about those freerolls $11 MTTs while making $5,000 HU live challenges.

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsTasteBad
Lol played for a 11 dollar ticket on merge last night because i was bored. Won the ticket.

Played in the 1250 gtd deepstack, just busted out after grinding for a few hours.

How?

in the BB had K10 spades. Flop 2s4s9s.i check, button bluffs, i call. Turn is a 10c. i all in. Guy whos been watching me play tight (only showed a set and AA) calls with As6c.

River? Spade. lol

12 hands later get QQ. Raise all in for 18 bbs UTG +2, guy behind me all ins with 3 other bigger stacks behind him. he has 88. Result? He four flushes to take me out.

This ALWAYS happens to me here, never fails.
First of all, slowplaying here when you do not have the nuts i would say is a mistake. He could easily already have you beat or has lots of outs drawing to the nuts.

2nd, you make an assumption that this person actually is watching you. Alot of bad players are not, and they actually don't really care what you are holding or how you play.

You do realise that if you had c/r him and he pushed allin, you could have gotten away from the hand? Now, that is not to say that i'm always able to get away from such hands (tilt, not having had hands for ages etc), even though i really should. More often i'm tempted to call, hence I'm not in the same league as world class. I would deffo go with it when i'm short. In cash games it's almost always a fold against most people. Most people won't fold, that's why some people are so much better than others (hence i like to do overbet shoves there with the nuts and get calls by such hands)

He could also have been slowplaying with the nuts if he called you if when you made a c/r, you were supposed to go broke if you kept on betting and ended up allin somewhere.

PS. i don't think we would see you make a post if we change 1 spade and give your opponent top set, you pushed and he called and you sucked out on the river.

Last edited by noremorze; 07-30-2012 at 04:19 PM.
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07-30-2012 , 03:56 PM
Last time i played on poker host?Flopped quad queens on a board of Q Q A my opponent held A3 off course i got beat by quad aces after the turn and river.Anybody wanna run the odds on that one?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
07-30-2012 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
You got laughed out of the poker goals forum, and nobody gets laughed out of that forum. People cheer on guys trying to earn $100 at poker. They laughed at you.
Wow, just saw that horrifying thread.

ChipsTasteBad, PG&C isn't meant for "testing" your rigging theories - please don't start threads like that in the future.

And if you know for a fact what's going to happen, why play the tourney in the first place?
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