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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,508 34.88%
No
5,615 55.84%
Undecided
933 9.28%

04-02-2012 , 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronT
I understand that fine. What you are not understanding is that I'm explaining that running under EV 5 out of 6 sessions IS NOT UNLIKELY. It will happen just under 11% of the time. If you cannot follow the calculations (since you aren't in the middle of a poker game?) you'll just have to take my word for that.

But 11% means it is more unlikely than likely. 11% is not 89%. And why Pokerstars chose me to run that bad. Why i must be that unlucky. I am just a player like aynone else but who knows maybe Pokerstars has a ranking system where they decide who is allowed to win and who not. But lets say it was just bad luck in past but why then it keeps like that. It just doesnt look normal.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-02-2012 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
No but i will explain you. You can be preflop favourite and then you see the flop and you are still favourite or even better favourite and odds look good but still at turn and river everything can change even you brought in your money before that. So then the poker site will tell you that this is variance.
You played good hand you had good flop you did everything right and still you lost.
And that happens with a very predictable and measurably frequency.

Don't like it? Play chess.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-02-2012 , 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronT
And that happens with a very predictable and measurably frequency.

Don't like it? Play chess.
Thats no argument. I dont like that it happens so often i dont say it can never happen. I like to play poker but why should i play at a site like Pokerstars where certain players are not allowed to win no matter how they play.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-02-2012 , 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
Do you want to tell me that someone with for example ev 30bb/100 is a bad player?
No one has a 30 EV bb/100 winrate and loses money over a significant amount of hands. I'd also be surprised if anyone but 2 and 5NL players and mega bumhunters had that kind of winrate, EV or otherwise, over any kind of sample.
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
I would really be happy if i am running just 4 buyins under ev.
But it looks much more bad. I would even not complain if it would be just 4 buyins.
How much more bad?


~3 times as bad?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-02-2012 , 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
But 11% means it is more unlikely than likely. 11% is not 89%. And why Pokerstars chose me to run that bad. Why i must be that unlucky. I am just a player like aynone else but who knows maybe Pokerstars has a ranking system where they decide who is allowed to win and who not. But lets say it was just bad luck in past but why then it keeps like that. It just doesnt look normal.
You continue to be suprised by something with an 11% likelihood happening to you. That's insane. Why didn't you answer my questions about how you react to similar and less likely things happening?

Oh, and by the way, neither Poker Stars nor anyone else specifically chose you to be part of the 11%. It's not personal. Why you'd take it personally, I do not know.

You know what would be a dead solid piece of evidence of rigging? If no one ever ran below EV for 5 to 6 sessions out of 6. That would be case closed right there.

Do you realize that in any hand the results are above EV for one or more players and below EV for one or more players and they EXACTLY even out?

Try to take a deep breath and step back and realize this thread has a self-selection bias.

Only players who run more poorly than they believe they should post here. Try to find all the posts in this thread of people saying that they run way too hot over large sample sizes, therefore it must be rigged. But, as I just said, any time someone is under EV someone else is over EV by exactly the same amount. So where are these people who believe the game is rigged because they run too well? There's an 11% of people after each 6 sessions that were above EV for 5 or 6 of those sessions after all.

Face it, you are only here because you were unlucky. If you ran much closer than you did to expectations then someone else would have run worse and then they'd be the one fussing in here. But as long as the deal is fair, someone has to be a part of that 11%. This time it was you. But it was never personal, and it was inevitably someone.

Consider this for a second. Let's say that if you added up the player totals from all online cardrooms each day it was a million players. I don't know the actual number, but it doesn't quite matter, the point is the same. Then in that case, on average, something that is a million to one shot happens to a player EVERY DAY. Surely they have a better case for a rigging. They can truthfully say, look, this is a million to one against, AND IT HAPPENED TO ME! And then the next day someone else could post that something that was a million to one shot happened to them. And then the same the next day, and the next, and the next forever. Wow, that looks like strong evidence that the games are rigged. But the truth is that's what a fair deal looks like if everyone posts their unusual experiences.

And you want to complain that something that only happens 11% of the time happened to you. Shoot, we have that many daily posters IN THIS THREAD. It would be odd if something that frequent DIDN'T occur to one of THIS THREAD'S daily posters EVERY DAY!

Last edited by AaronT; 04-02-2012 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Some of this assumes that there is only one event per player per day. The argument is even stronger when this is corrected.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-02-2012 , 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
Thats no argument.
Unsubstantiated opinnion maskerading as fact.

Quote:
I dont like that it happens so often i dont say it can never happen. I like to play poker but why should i play at a site like Pokerstars where certain players are not allowed to win no matter how they play.
Question assumes facts not in evidence.

At least try to stay within the rules of debate if you wish to have a rational discussion.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-02-2012 , 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
Thats no argument. I dont like that it happens so often i dont say it can never happen. I like to play poker but why should i play at a site like Pokerstars where certain players are not allowed to win no matter how they play.
Addiction to the game. Boredom. Living in a fantasy world, to name a few.
Why just keep saying P.S. though. Every OLP site is rigged to eventually take your roll to zero, and create the main purpose of the deal manipulation, the rebuy.

Last edited by blatantlyrigged; 04-02-2012 at 10:58 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-02-2012 , 11:31 PM
I think BR is actually that guy who blogs against poker for Focus On the Family.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 03:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
Thats no argument. I dont like that it happens so often i dont say it can never happen. I like to play poker but why should i play at a site like Pokerstars where certain players are not allowed to win no matter how they play.
You don't have to play on Pokerstars.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
I looked it up so I know what this means, but I can't help but be a bit tilted by it since every time I read your signature in my head it always comes out in the voice of Jar Jar Binks!
Lmao @ this

If it helps it's pronounced MISHA


Is mise Tompakee


Keep up the good work

Last edited by tompakee; 04-03-2012 at 04:19 AM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 04:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronT
You continue to be suprised by something with an 11% likelihood happening to you. That's insane. Why didn't you answer my questions about how you react to similar and less likely things happening?

Oh, and by the way, neither Poker Stars nor anyone else specifically chose you to be part of the 11%. It's not personal. Why you'd take it personally, I do not know.

You know what would be a dead solid piece of evidence of rigging? If no one ever ran below EV for 5 to 6 sessions out of 6. That would be case closed right there.

Do you realize that in any hand the results are above EV for one or more players and below EV for one or more players and they EXACTLY even out?

Try to take a deep breath and step back and realize this thread has a self-selection bias.

Only players who run more poorly than they believe they should post here. Try to find all the posts in this thread of people saying that they run way too hot over large sample sizes, therefore it must be rigged. But, as I just said, any time someone is under EV someone else is over EV by exactly the same amount. So where are these people who believe the game is rigged because they run too well? There's an 11% of people after each 6 sessions that were above EV for 5 or 6 of those sessions after all.

Face it, you are only here because you were unlucky. If you ran much closer than you did to expectations then someone else would have run worse and then they'd be the one fussing in here. But as long as the deal is fair, someone has to be a part of that 11%. This time it was you. But it was never personal, and it was inevitably someone.

Consider this for a second. Let's say that if you added up the player totals from all online cardrooms each day it was a million players. I don't know the actual number, but it doesn't quite matter, the point is the same. Then in that case, on average, something that is a million to one shot happens to a player EVERY DAY. Surely they have a better case for a rigging. They can truthfully say, look, this is a million to one against, AND IT HAPPENED TO ME! And then the next day someone else could post that something that was a million to one shot happened to them. And then the same the next day, and the next, and the next forever. Wow, that looks like strong evidence that the games are rigged. But the truth is that's what a fair deal looks like if everyone posts their unusual experiences.

And you want to complain that something that only happens 11% of the time happened to you. Shoot, we have that many daily posters IN THIS THREAD. It would be odd if something that frequent DIDN'T occur to one of THIS THREAD'S daily posters EVERY DAY!
+ 4.7 googol

You shills and your helpful, well considered posts. When will you learn?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 04:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
I have no reason to lie but i will tell things that happened without caring if some people want to hear it or not. You cant call people who lost much money and who complain because of that liars when they say this or that poker site is rigged. For me Pokerstars is rigged. Of course i wished it wouldnt be rigged because i like poker and i want a clean and fair game thats all. But it looks to me rigged thats my opinion and i came to this opinion after i looked to everything what i experienced at Pokerstars.

Oh dear....why are you quoting something i said about blatantly******ed not you? Poor BR been on the cheap vodka again and forgot to log out of his gimmick account before replying again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
But 11% means it is more unlikely than likely. 11% is not 89%. And why Pokerstars chose me to run that bad. Why i must be that unlucky. I am just a player like aynone else but who knows maybe Pokerstars has a ranking system where they decide who is allowed to win and who not. But lets say it was just bad luck in past but why then it keeps like that. It just doesnt look normal.

Lol please explain to uo us how They chose you to run bad, How the so called "stars ranking system" works and why they would single you out for constant run bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
Thats no argument. I dont like that it happens so often i dont say it can never happen. I like to play poker but why should i play at a site like Pokerstars where certain players are not allowed to win no matter how they play.
#

Who is forcing you to play there? If stars is rigged as you claim it is why do you go back there? Surely throwing money into a site that you claim you KNOW is rigged is the pinnacle of stupidity!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
Addiction to the game. Boredom. Living in a fantasy world, to name a few.
Why just keep saying P.S. though. Every OLP site is rigged to eventually take your roll to zero, and create the main purpose of the deal manipulation, the rebuy.

Blah Blah Blah BR posts yet another few lines of random copy/paste from his shill database

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
+ 4.7 googol

You shills and your helpful, well considered posts. When will you learn?
Unlike the intelligent helpfull posts that you supply.


Another day of rigtards itt moaning and whining about bad beats because of a rig that only they can see or feel. Maybe this will be the day that they post the concrete conclusive evidence to prove that olp is rigged!!!

Spoiler:
But i won't hold my breath



Is mise Tompakee


Keep up the good work
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
+ 4.7 googol

You shills and your helpful, well considered posts. When will you learn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompakee
Unlike the intelligent helpfull posts that you supply.
Tompakee,

I think your sarcasm detector is still on the fritz. Now I realize this was a two level deep sarcasm post by Bingo Boy (i.e. it was sarcastically sarcastic, so its meaning matched a sincere read), so that's a little trickier. But your sarcasm detector only went one level deep.

With that happening to you two days in a row, I'd definately take that thing in for repair.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompakee

Who is forcing you to play there? If stars is rigged as you claim it is why do you go back there? Surely throwing money into a site that you claim you KNOW is rigged is the pinnacle of stupidity!

Wow, this 17 year old snot noser actually said something that made sense.
Or are you 37 still living off your parents?
As naive as you seem to be Im guessing one or the other.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 09:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronT
Tompakee,

I think your sarcasm detector is still on the fritz. Now I realize this was a two level deep sarcasm post by Bingo Boy (i.e. it was sarcastically sarcastic, so its meaning matched a sincere read), so that's a little trickier. But your sarcasm detector only went one level deep.

With that happening to you two days in a row, I'd definately take that thing in for repair.
I apologise profoundly to yourself, mr bingo and all of my other hard working shills who strive to make this thread a better place to work. I am off now for several hours of meditation followed by 3 hours of harsh self flagellation. Hopefully by tomorrow i will be back to my good self


Is mise Tompakee


Keep up the good work
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 09:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
Wow, this 17 year old snot noser actually said something that made sense.
Or are you 37 still living off your parents?
As naive as you seem to be Im guessing one or the other.
Yawwwwnnnnnnnnnnn.

You claim you play olp but you can never prove it..i can!

You claim you are working but can never prove it...I can!

You claim you are an adult but can never prove it....I can!

You claim you have your own house but can never prove it....I can!


your posts put me in mind of 1000 monkeys mindlessly mashing their fists against 1000 computer keyboards.


Is mise Tompakee


Keep up the good work
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 12:56 PM
I was recently diagnosed with a disease that affects approximately 1-150000

I know what most of you are thinking. "Geeze. Who on earth rigged your life?"

Well after reading some of the well constructed posts in this thread I'm thinking it might be Pokerstars and iPoker. Now that I can't work I've been playing more which means they earn more in rake.

Could you advise who I can speak to that actually gives a ****!

Will they care that I've been crushing all the fish?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-3AIPre
I was recently diagnosed with a disease that affects approximately 1-150000

I know what most of you are thinking. "Geeze. Who on earth rigged your life?"

Well after reading some of the well constructed posts in this thread I'm thinking it might be Pokerstars and iPoker. Now that I can't work I've been playing more which means they earn more in rake.

Could you advise who I can speak to that actually gives a ****!

Will they care that I've been crushing all the fish?
Sorry to hear about your illness. But otherwise I can't figure out at all what you're asking.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8-3AIPre
I was recently diagnosed with a disease that affects approximately 1-150000
I'm sorry to hear that... I expect a diagnosis later this month that's about equally unlikely.

Quote:
I know what most of you are thinking. "Geeze. Who on earth rigged your life?"

Well after reading some of the well constructed posts in this thread I'm thinking it might be Pokerstars and iPoker. Now that I can't work I've been playing more which means they earn more in rake.
That is definately unassailable reasoning.

Quote:
Could you advise who I can speak to that actually gives a ****!
Fred.

Quote:
Will they care that I've been crushing all the fish?
No.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
Sorry to hear about your illness. But otherwise I can't figure out at all what you're asking.

so what was you opinion about the hoooligan case? what happened in the time span of that 1 night?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
so what was you opinion about the hoooligan case? what happened in the time span of that 1 night?
oh, rigged for sure!

Last edited by Arouet; 04-03-2012 at 03:01 PM. Reason: wait....what are we talking about?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 03:14 PM
FULLTILTPOKER will be back open within 3 months....a fresh new rig thread for the tards?????


Is mise Tompakee


Keep up the good work
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tompakee
FULLTILTPOKER will be back open within 3 months....a fresh new rig thread for the tards?????
Raally? That's good cause they owe me quite a bit of back pay. I never was informed that my shilling contract was terminated, so I've just kept going. I'm sure they'll be good for it. I trust them.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
oh, rigged for sure!


you promised me a serious feedback, so what is your analyze?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
04-03-2012 , 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
you promised me a serious feedback, so what is your analyze?
I'm sorry, I've been a bit distracted lately. Can you point me again to the post?

by the way: I haven't suggested that I have the stats background to do a careful analysis. I was talking more generally about twoplustwo. But I'll give you my thoughts for sure.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
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