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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,508 34.88%
No
5,615 55.84%
Undecided
933 9.28%

03-23-2012 , 02:58 PM
not so hard when account not rigged anymore

The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
not so hard when account not rigged anymore

Twenty six dollars. Impressive.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkus63
Twenty six dollars. Impressive.

more important is the win rate, incredible how you guessed wrong out of so many options
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
more important is the win rate, incredible how you guessed wrong out of so many options
I guessed wrong, too. I thought the 2k hands was the impressive part.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 03:45 PM
i r winning the micromillions 11$ t000rney
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 05:58 PM
We're all super proud of you, pal. How'd that turn out for you?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 06:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
I just want to know how many big blinds you can run under ev line in worst case after 100000 hands.
It depends on your true winrate and your standard deviation. If you have a high winrate and a low standard deviation, you'll rarely be far below EV. If you have a low winrate and a high SD, you could have looooong periods of losing money.
The graphs I posted you showed exactly how many big blinds you can be under EV over 100,000 hands. In the first graph, each 5bb/100 winning player was expected to win 5000 big blinds (50 buy-ins) in 100,000 hands, but one won 8000bb, so he was 3000bb above EV, and another broke even, so he was 5000bb below EV. By running more simulations with the same numbers you can get even more extreme variance.

If you want to experiment by putting in your own numbers, please do.
If you have HEM, go to Reports>Overall and add the following stats: "EV bb/100" and "Standard Deviation bb/100". The EV bb/100 may be closer to your "true" winrate than your actual profit, since EV winrate is based on you winning a "fair" share of equity in called all in situations.

Put those numbers into the variance simulator where it asks for winrate and SD. Also type in the number of hands you've played. http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tool...nce_simulator/
Let's say your EV bb/100 is 2bb/100 and your SD is 65bb/100 and you played 50,000 hands.
Here's a graph showing 100 possible runs for you.

Almost everyone with a 2bb/100 winrate and an SD of 65bb/100 would experience a run somewhere between the extremes shown on the chart.
The expected profit is 1000bb (10 buy-ins) in 50k hands. The luckiest player wins almost 6000bb (60 buy-ins) and the unluckiest loses almost 4000bb (40 buyins).
So if you were this 2bb/100 player and managed to break even, you'd be doing a lot better than many of the other players who had worse luck than you.
Unless you tell us your EV bb/100, actual bb/100, standard deviation bb/100 and number of hands, we can't tell you just how unlucky you are. But you can put the numbers into the simulator yourself. If you actually tried to understand what the graphs mean, you might finally realise that however bad your luck has been, it could be much, much worse.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooligan
not so hard when account not rigged anymore
Serious question:
Do you really think you are good enough to sustain a winrate of 25bb/100 (let alone 59bb/100) over a 100k sample?
I've had a couple of mini-heaters where I've run at 70bb/100 for 2000 hands or so, but no one on the planet wins that much over a statistically important sample.
If you really, truly, believe you are some sort of poker prodigy, you are a seriously deluded.

EDIT: Simulated variance for 100 players that have "true" winrates of 20bb/100 and SD of 80bb/100.

Over 100,000 hands, the luckiest run wins at 25bb/100, to finish 50 buy-ins above EV. There are certainly some short spells of running hotter than a kettle, but for a 20bb/100 prodigy, it would be impossible to run at 50bb/100 for 100k hands. It's unpossible.

Last edited by ArtySmokes; 03-23-2012 at 06:18 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 08:04 PM
if every hand that matters you get setup/outflopped or sucked out then you know its rigged.
if you want proof just tell me what filters to use in hem
played large enough volume of heads up sng and did enough to improve
got almost every hand stored and my main game is heads up sng turbo

if anyone knows what to look for please tell me
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bel20
if every hand that matters you get setup/outflopped or sucked out then you know its rigged.
if you want proof just tell me what filters to use in hem
played large enough volume of heads up sng and did enough to improve
got almost every hand stored and my main game is heads up sng turbo

if anyone knows what to look for please tell me
The proof is in the playing. Watch what happens. Its right in front of your face,
its rigged without question. No need for these graphs which the site promoters use to try and cloud the truth.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
The proof is in the playing. Watch what happens. Its right in front of your face,
its rigged without question. No need for these graphs which the site promoters use to try and cloud the truth.
Sometimes you just make me laugh BR. I'm kinda of leaning back towards you being a gimmick with lines like this! Well done if so!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arouet
Sometimes you just make me laugh BR. I'm kinda of leaning back towards you being a gimmick with lines like this! Well done if so!
So youre joining in with the rest of the site promoters to use this "Im a gimmick" tactic. Understandable I quess since the excuses used to try and prove OLP isnt rigged are getting pretty stale and people are seeing right through it.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
The proof is in the playing. Watch what happens. Its right in front of your face,
its rigged without question. No need for these graphs which the site promoters use to try and cloud the truth.
There must be some stat that's showing something Strange on a big Sample size
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bel20
There must be some stat that's showing something Strange on a big Sample size
If you really dig in and monitor each individual over a couple of years time, yes, you will see the manipulation clearly.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
If you really dig in and monitor each individual over a couple of years time, yes, you will see the manipulation clearly.
I mean in my own database
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 09:46 PM
Dont see why not if you have been playing for a good period of time.
Dont you obverse carefully what happens with your hands and to other playing with you? That right there should give you a good idea that there is nothing random about the deal.
As another poster has pointed out, more than likely the hands are already pre- dealt. Sometimes a change will be made at the last card dealt on the board to change the outcome. Ever notice how sometimes the last card takes a while to hit the board?
The rigged system isnt cut and dry. If it was, it would be too obvious. These sites prey on the naive and ignorant.

Last edited by blatantlyrigged; 03-23-2012 at 09:54 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
Dont see why not if you have been playing for a good period of time.
Dont you obverse carefully what happens with your hands and to other playing with you? That right there should give you a good idea that there is nothing random about the deal.
As another poster has pointed out, more than likely the hands are already pre- dealt. Sometimes a change will be made at the last card dealt on the board to change the outcome. Ever notice how sometimes the last card takes a while to hit the board?
The rigged system isnt cut and dry. If it was, it would be too obvious. These sites prey on the naive and ignorant.
Been playing for 6years + ofcourse i notice strange things that's why the question
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bel20
Been playing for 6years + ofcourse i notice strange things that's why the question
Best advice I can give right now is dont be taken in by all the site promoters that infest this thread. They will attack your comments with a vengence.
This forum is NOT the place to share this info or ask questions pertaining to rigging. I would advise trying a forum with the majority of real OLP players at this time.
Sorry I cant help with graphs. Dont need them. Played OLP for many years, and have no doubts the deal is manipulated. Probably played a million hands and watched very carefully what went on. Years ago I won thousands and now cant come out ahead to save my life.
Pretty much the same as everyone else. Im in the U.S. also which really puts me at a total disadvantage.

Last edited by blatantlyrigged; 03-23-2012 at 10:12 PM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
You will never get that relation or it is very unlikely? How unlikely? You don't have a clue because you are making stuff up and hoping nobody bothers to question it. If they do, or prove you wrong, you will just ignore it.
Its very unlikely even numbers go to eternity. But if we talk about eternity then there is a chance even its a very small chance. So a math expert would give you as answer nearly impossible but not fully impossible guess.

When you go to a roulette table same colour can come 15 times in a row and at first look this looks unlikely but if you imagine numbers go to eternity this doesnt look that unlikely anymore.

If you did understood what i told then you know at least a bit how unlikely it is. If you throw a coin ten times you can get six head and four tail as result often.
But if you throw a coin ten million times you dont get a result like six million head and four million tail that easily. Did you understood now? If not maybe go to a check to a doctor.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop
*whoosh*

It's not possible for everyone to run under EV.Again, it's not just a factor of winrate, it's also what your standard deviation is.

You can go to the ev++ simulator yourself and punch in winrates and standard deviations to your hearts' content.
I did go there and i get something like 2600 big blinds under ev in worst case with a winrate of 0 breakeven player. That would mean at limits of 0.05/0.10$ that you can run under ev 260$ in worst case after 100000 hands. Is this right?
So if you run more than 260$ under ev than something is wrong right?
And how can i know what my standard deviation is?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 10:56 PM
Maybe one more post truthsbehind, and youll have accomplished covering up the discussion above yours which really pertains to the subject matter at hand?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-23-2012 , 11:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
So youre joining in with the rest of the site promoters to use this "Im a gimmick" tactic. Understandable I quess since the excuses used to try and prove OLP isnt rigged are getting pretty stale and people are seeing right through it.
Honestly, its the charitable viewpoint. It's actually a compliment to you. Because otherwise it leaves us accepting that you truly reject any and all objective evidence - and that's hard to swallow. Few people reject ALL objective evidence. I'm not sure I've ever met someone like that other than you. It's a hard position to justify, wouldn't you agree?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-24-2012 , 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
Its very unlikely even numbers go to eternity. But if we talk about eternity then there is a chance even its a very small chance. So a math expert would give you as answer nearly impossible but not fully impossible guess.

When you go to a roulette table same colour can come 15 times in a row and at first look this looks unlikely but if you imagine numbers go to eternity this doesnt look that unlikely anymore.
The word you are looking for is "infinity". They are not synonyms. And it is 100% likely that numbers go to infinity. Not "very unlikely". And a roulette wheel will come up with 15 consecutive same color spins on average every 16K spins, which happens frequently in a busy casino, possibly even daily.

Every post you make is riddled with so many errors as to be comical. Just stop.

Last edited by NewOldGuy; 03-24-2012 at 01:30 AM.
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03-24-2012 , 03:56 AM
eternity means the same as infinity.......
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
03-24-2012 , 04:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bel20

if anyone knows what to look for please tell me
Apparntly, you know what to look for already so you tell us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
Dont see why not if you have been playing for a good period of time.
Lie you had, you mean? Yet this statement directly contradicts your previous statements that hand histories prove nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
These sites prey on the naive and ignorant.
Is that why idiots like you are targets but intelligent people can't see it in their hand histories?

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthsbehind
Its very unlikely even numbers go to eternity. But if we talk about eternity then there is a chance even its a very small chance. So a math expert would give you as answer nearly impossible but not fully impossible guess.

When you go to a roulette table same colour can come 15 times in a row and at first look this looks unlikely but if you imagine numbers go to eternity this doesnt look that unlikely anymore.

If you did understood what i told then you know at least a bit how unlikely it is. If you throw a coin ten times you can get six head and four tail as result often.
But if you throw a coin ten million times you dont get a result like six million head and four million tail that easily. Did you understood now? If not maybe go to a check to a doctor.
No. A maths expert would use actual numbers to give an exact answer, not just ramble on like a moron.

Do you understood?
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