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The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes
3,508 34.88%
No
5,615 55.84%
Undecided
933 9.28%

11-20-2011 , 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by raymears
You sound like a gifted intellectual. Were you a child prodigy of some sort?
I got a gold star at school once, does that count?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
Just so we're clear, how much did you win during boomswitch periods, how much did you lose during doomswitch periods and how much 'should' you have won overall during this period based on the quality of your play without rigging?
More appropriately, instead of wasting any more time here, as there are no real players in this thread right now, Ill let you wastes of cum,(like yourself), play with yourselves. You can lie to each other, wouldnt that be fun?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 04:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
More appropriately, instead of wasting any more time here, as there are no real players in this thread right now, Ill let you wastes of cum,(like yourself), play with yourselves. You can lie to each other, wouldnt that be fun?
Define "real player".
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 04:43 PM
Real Player - [ree-uhl pley-er] - noun

1. a moron that agrees with the lunatic ramblings of another moron
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
You still haven't answered how live poker rooms stay in business when the fish bust.
.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 04:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
More appropriately, instead of wasting any more time here, as there are no real players in this thread right now, Ill let you wastes of cum,(like yourself), play with yourselves. You can lie to each other, wouldnt that be fun?
You forgot to quote the part of my post where I explained that you wouldnt answer the question because it would make you look even more stupid than usual.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 05:33 PM
Based on that quote, he has other things on his mind for now. Think jjj pretty much called it earlier.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 05:35 PM
blatantlyrigged - The games were much, much easier pre-UIGEA. Yes or no?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
Notice how every site promoter, site employee, ignorant fool, etc. invade this thread in the weekend trying to dupe newer players into thinking OLP is not manipulated.
Shocking!
I have to say that anyone who calls all opposition as site promoters and affiliates is insane. Blatantlyrigged is a random fish who is taking his failure in OLP to an extreme level and accusing everyone who doesn't agree with him.

Sir, you will never win a dollar from poker even if you play in a live setting. Poker is not for crazies like you. Mental health is of primary importance in poker and your mental condition doesn't permit you to be left alone in the public.

You have 0 thinking ability, and not because you are a riggie, its coz your arguments and your posts in general are lame as it gets. I have never seen a anyone who has made 1300 posts about a topic without being able to convince even one person. All you have done is personal attacks without producing any proof in support of your arguments.

The first temptation you'd have after reading this would be to call me a site promoter/affiliate, without telling us why you think so. You sir, have tact and logical ability of a five year old. I am assuring you that you will never be able to do anything that requires thinking and creativity. If its still possible for ya, try going to college, you might learn a few live saving lessons.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo_Boy
I forgot to quote part of my post where I look even more stupid than usual.
+1
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfAces
I have to say that anyone who calls all opposition as site promoters and affiliates is insane. Blatantlyrigged is a random fish who is taking his failure in OLP to an extreme level and accusing everyone who doesn't agree with him.

Sir, you will never win a dollar from poker even if you play in a live setting. Poker is not for crazies like you. Mental health is of primary importance in poker and your mental condition doesn't permit you to be left alone in the public.

You have 0 thinking ability, and not because you are a riggie, its coz your arguments and your posts in general are lame as it gets. I have never seen a anyone who has made 1300 posts about a topic without being able to convince even one person. All you have done is personal attacks without producing any proof in support of your arguments.

The first temptation you'd have after reading this would be to call me a site promoter/affiliate, without telling us why you think so. You sir, have tact and logical ability of a five year old. I am assuring you that you will never be able to do anything that requires thinking and creativity. If its still possible for ya, try going to college, you might learn a few live saving lessons.
Wrong.

Keep going Blatantlyrigged - you have obviously got the shills rattled. They are spouting even more spiteful gibberish than usual.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 10:44 PM
Nice to finally see another riggie (I assume you are one though I don't recognize your user name) offering some support to that guy, all of the other riggies completely ignore him as if he is the black sheep of the riggie family. He certainly deserves better given his 50+ posts per day he provides!

I also agree that he does seem to rattle some of the shills, and the best solution for that is for all the shills to simply put him on ignore.

What you should do now is actively encourage the other riggies when they post to proudly and loudly support the blatantdude as that will greatly help strengthen your cause. They all ignore him, just look at the thread history and try to find any riggies that acknowledge him at all.

He really needs your help. He needs a person like you to help him get his fellow riggie support, are you up for that challenge? Yes or no?

As a reward, you and he can call me a shill/site defender/Lizard Person to your heart's content and I will not even argue the point.

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 10:55 PM
Ignoring him completely would negate some of the entertainment value of this thread!
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
+1
The big tough guy went 6 hours without posting in this thread.

That's pretty impressive.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 11:03 PM
At least two online casinos use software that cheats craps players, two leading gambling statisticians say.

The software by BLR Technologies, based in Costa Rica, detects a player's bet and increases the chances of a losing roll, according to gambling consultant Michael Shackleford, known as the "Wizard of Odds," and Eliot Jacobson, operator of Jacobson Gaming, which audits and certifies casino games around the world.

Legends.com and World Wide Wagering (www.wager.dm) use the BLR software in their craps games, according to rating service SportsBookReview.com. A third operator, 5Dimes.com, said it dropped BLR after the studies were posted on Shackleford's WizardOfVegas.com site.

Rachel Miller, general manager of Legends, said the software used on her site plays fairly. She said the company has invested thousands of dollars in new random number generators to work with the BLR software. She said she could not agree or disagree with the Shackleford and Jacobson studies because they did not test the craps game at Legends.

"I guarantee that everything is perfect on our end," she said.

A spokeswoman for 5Dimes said the company had no comment beyond a statement to Shackleford's site that it had removed BLR software from its casinos.

"BLR was given ample time to address the concerns of (WizardOfVegas) forum members as well as our direct questions," the statement said. "No acceptable answers were given, so the casino platform was removed."

BLR and World Wide did not respond to phone and e-mail requests for comment.

Legends, licensed in Panama, and 5Dimes, based in Costa Rica, are among only five online sports books with an A-plus rating from SportsBookReview.com, which grades hundreds of sites for customer service, incentives and pricing. World Wide, licensed in Dominica, West Indies, has a B grade.

The complaint about the craps software surfaced last month in a WizardOfVegas player forum.

Norman Clem, 66, of Las Vegas said he had been playing craps at World Wide for about a year and was slightly ahead before he suddenly started losing.

"I thought I was just on a bad run. But it never stopped," he told Player's Advantage. He documented his play, recording each bet and each outcome in a spreadsheet. From May 14 to Aug. 27, he videotaped 3,200 rolls in which he bet "pass" or "don't pass," the simplest bets in craps.

Those bets should win almost 49 percent of the time. Clem said he won 856 times, about 27 percent.

Intrigued by Clem's postings, Shackleford played craps at 5Dimes, which was using BLR software at the time. He said he bet only the pass line, winning 81 times and losing 247.

"It would have been easier to win the Powerball two out of two times than to be as unlucky as I was," said Shackleford, who has helped design slot machines for Internet casinos.

Jacobson said he devised a test to see whether the software "would really misbehave." With his approach, he would win something unless a seven came on the next roll.

"Suddenly, it produced a lot of sevens," he said. In 74 chances, a seven came up 41 times, or more than once in every two rolls; with fair dice, a seven comes up an average of once every six rolls.

"Thousands of people have been ripped off by this software," Jacobson said.

Clem said World Wide refunded his losses.

"It's obvious I was cheated, so what were they going to do?" he said.

Shackleford said 5Dimes refunded his losses. It's unclear whether others received refunds.

Jacobson said BLR also makes software for online blackjack, video poker, roulette and slots, but he does not know of any research into those.

Legends, World Wide and 5Dimes are primarily sports books, but offer casino games as another gambling attraction. Miller said less than 10 percent of Legends' 7,500 active gamblers use the casino.

She said Legends continues to use BLR, in part, because the software works so well with the site's main function of handling sports bets.

The United States does not license or regulate online gambling. Federal law prohibits American gamblers from collecting winnings from Internet casinos.

The federal government's April 15 crackdown on Full Tilt Poker, PokerStars and Ultimate Bet was based on accusations that they violated U.S. banking law.

Although those sites were shut down in the United States, 300 offshore companies continue to offer online gambling to U.S. players, according to the American Gaming Association, an industry group.

Shackleford and Jacobson said the BLR case should hasten the move toward U.S. regulation of online gambling.

"It only goes to show that when there's no regulation, there's nothing to stop these types of things from happening," Shackleford said.

"This kind of issue just shows how much (regulation is) needed," Jacobson said. "People are going to continue to gamble at these sites. There are still thieves and crooks creating crooked software."


Read more: Studies say software cheats players at 2 online casinos - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...#ixzz1eIzGtuGn
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-20-2011 , 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatBandit
OK time to nail the hand histories lie.

The assorted sorry bunch who come to this thread every day to argue that online poker is straight constantly demand evidence of rigging without providing any evidence of their own that deals are honestly run.

The only thing they come up with when pressed is 'There is a database on the internet somewhere that shows a zillion hand histories and there is nothing irregular'. This proves zilch, diddly squat, zero.

I am sure the hand histories of every single player show that over the course of say 10,000 or 100,000 hands they received aces as hole cards at the right intervals - every 220 hands. The same will go for kings, queens, jacks and all the crappy hands. The regularity of your cards will appear normal.

What is not shown on hand histories is what everyone else at your table is being dealt. If you are dealt pocket aces, great. If you opponent has a pair of twos and hits a two on the flop your aces mean nothing. If you have kings and your opponent has aces, you will lose. If you have a full house and your opponent hits quads you will lose.

You need to see the hand histories of every player, no matter what stage they folded or were beaten by superior cards. This gives us the full picture - something the discredited poker industry is desperate to keep secret.

If you are at a table with house players and bots and these are being fed better cards than you time and again through deals or through flops, turns and rivers, you will lose very badly.

If you are sitting with a new depositor/someone who generates lots of rake and tournament fees and they are being fed better cards, you will also lose very badly.

It's called deal manipulation and will not show up in individual hand histories. The only way to trace it is through having the hand histories for every player at the table and for every hand to go to showdown.

The poker industry will not allow anyone access to this type of information. It would prove once and for all that the deal is shamelessly rigged.

Instead they send their not very bright minions to poker forums to pose as ordinary players and post snide abuse in threads like this.

It's sad and it's crooked - and it's the online poker industry.

Teach it a lesson - withdraw your cash from online poker rooms and send them an email saying you will only play again when they prove they are not manipulating deals.

Let's start standing up for the millions of honest online poker players who risk their hard-earned cash.

And let's start giving a hard time to the dishonest poker rooms - and their representatives here who try to justify the biggest rip-off on the internet.
+1000000000
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-21-2011 , 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes
The theory proposed in this thread is that "Online poker is rigged".
The theory is that online poker can be rigged, and dont forget that there are many ways to rig the game. I never said online poker were definately rigged, an even though I think so I cant say that because I dont have any proof. I just explain why I think so before some guys come and call all types of rigging either impossible, unprofitable or detectable. They say that "online poker is not rigged" but dont have the arguments to back that up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes
Along with many other people, I've pointed out the problems with that theory.
No, you created your own rigging theory and pointed out the problems in it.

And who do you think the "other people" are? Normal people who just have an interest in this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes
You're gonna have to help me out here. Either you've missed out some crucial information, or you've set up a logical fallacy. If they are running below EV as a whole, to whom are they losing value?
You can't have 10,000 players all losing X bb/100, without another group of players gaining X bb/100.
Are you suggesting that Stars is rewarding a second group of players +EV, by rigging the cards in their favour? For what purpose would Stars do this? If there are 20,000 players on the site, it doesn't matter to Stars whether 50%, 5% or 95% are above or below EV. They pay rake regardless of whether they are winning or losing.
Do you understand how a pokereconomy works?

Do you understand what evening the playing field even mean?

I will show you a simple example where 6 players are playing a 50$ sitngo.

This is their stats: Money balance/skill level in ROI

1. 450$/-4% ROI
2. 1600$/+7% ROI
3. 835$/-10% ROI
4. 34500$/+2% ROI
5. 245$/+3% ROI
6. 9500$/+3% ROI

Places paid: 1 = 200$ and 2 = 100$

What outcome of the SnG do you think is best for the site hosting it based on this information? If you ran the site, who would you want first and second?

Lets say player 1 is a new player on the site who recently deposited 500$. He plays and plays but never peaks his initial deposit and are basically just degenrating before eventually busto. How likely do you think he is to make another deposit now?

Imagine he runs his money up to 1500 instead, before he starts to lose it. When he goes busto, how likely do you think he is to make another deposit in this case? Or if you were running the site: Which of the two scenarios would you rather happened to the new player?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-21-2011 , 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monteroy
I also agree that he does seem to rattle some of the shills, and the best solution for that is for all the shills to simply put him on ignore.
Hey, I rattle too right? Would be cool if you guys could start ignoring as well. You have already explained so many times how delusional and paranoid I am so its only fair that you would ignore such a person.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-21-2011 , 12:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyonkemp
Hey, I rattle too right? Would be cool if you guys could start ignoring as well. You have already explained so many times how delusional and paranoid I am so its only fair that you would ignore such a person.


You at least try, even though most of your theories are just duplicates of your other theories that get shot down. I kind of chuckled when one stats guy after another told you that your theories were invalid and all you did was tweak them in an insignificant way and ask again.

Eventually when they gave up and stopped replying you interpreted that as them agreeing with your theories. That was pretty damn entertaining.

If I created a riggie gimmick account, I would actually try to do what you are genuinely doing. If you are a gimmick then you get my praise for a job well done.

Here are some comments/questions that you can avoid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyonkemp
The theory is that online poker can be rigged, and dont forget that there are many ways to rig the game.
Go to this forum

http://forums.holdemmanager.com/manager-general/

Post any specific theory you can think of and they can tell you how you can test it for your hands (assuming you use Holdem Manager which I realize most riggies are afraid of) in under a minute.

Go nuts and think of as many theories as you like, and as long as they are not flaky like "more bad beats when the weather is cloudy" you will be able to test for it. New player boomswitches? No problem, very easy to test by dates of the hands. Weak opponents beating you on the rivers too much? No problem, easy to identify who the biggest losers are in your database and then bring up all hands against them and filter them for any test you like.

The tools to test all your beliefs are right there and you can even get a free trial! Somehow I doubt that will convince you



Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyonkemp
Do you understand how a pokereconomy works?

Do you understand what evening the playing field even mean?

I will show you a simple example where 6 players are playing a 50$ sitngo.

This is their stats: Money balance/skill level in ROI

1. 450$/-4% ROI
2. 1600$/+7% ROI
3. 835$/-10% ROI
4. 34500$/+2% ROI
5. 245$/+3% ROI
6. 9500$/+3% ROI

Places paid: 1 = 200$ and 2 = 100$

What outcome of the SnG do you think is best for the site hosting it based on this information? If you ran the site, who would you want first and second?
Do you have any idea how many sit and gos and tournaments run every day? We have guys that can play 1,000 in a good day.

How exactly are you going to program them all to have specific people win in the way you want? How are you going to have the players play in exactly the way you want? If they do not are you going to change the rig on the fly, for tens of thousands of tournaments daily with different combinations of people in each one?

You also have to do this without being caught either by an outsider or insider.

Do you have any idea of the scale of this project?


Tell you what, I will give you a simpler one. That blatantdude desperately needs a friend/supporter and I imagine that badbeatbandit guy is a hit and run poster, so how about you step up to the plate and quote him and openly support him every chance you get. He really could use support from a poster like you, so don't you think it would be the right thing to do to follow him?

All the best.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-21-2011 , 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
+1000000000

Pretty much everything in the post you quoted has been debunked numerous times.

Saying +1, or +10000000000000000000000000000 has no effect on the validity of the statements being made.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-21-2011 , 02:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyonkemp
Hey, I rattle too right? Would be cool if you guys could start ignoring as well. You have already explained so many times how delusional and paranoid I am so its only fair that you would ignore such a person.
Some of these affiliates,coaches, site promoters for the most part are pathological liars.
They have an obsession with my posts and respond to them in some way faithfully. However, they have me on "ignore".
Come on, bro, THINK about that.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-21-2011 , 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
Pretty much everything in the post you quoted has been debunked numerous times.

Saying +1, or +10000000000000000000000000000 has no effect on the validity of the statements being made.
Debunked by liars, poker coaches, site promoters? So what! What he said is 100% truth.
What you say is meaningless, and thats being nice.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-21-2011 , 02:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBeatBandit
OK time to nail the hand histories lie.

The assorted sorry bunch who come to this thread every day to argue that online poker is straight constantly demand evidence of rigging without providing any evidence of their own that deals are honestly run.

The only thing they come up with when pressed is 'There is a database on the internet somewhere that shows a zillion hand histories and there is nothing irregular'. This proves zilch, diddly squat, zero.

I am sure the hand histories of every single player show that over the course of say 10,000 or 100,000 hands they received aces as hole cards at the right intervals - every 220 hands. The same will go for kings, queens, jacks and all the crappy hands. The regularity of your cards will appear normal.

What is not shown on hand histories is what everyone else at your table is being dealt. If you are dealt pocket aces, great. If you opponent has a pair of twos and hits a two on the flop your aces mean nothing. If you have kings and your opponent has aces, you will lose. If you have a full house and your opponent hits quads you will lose.

You need to see the hand histories of every player, no matter what stage they folded or were beaten by superior cards. This gives us the full picture - something the discredited poker industry is desperate to keep secret.

If you are at a table with house players and bots and these are being fed better cards than you time and again through deals or through flops, turns and rivers, you will lose very badly.

If you are sitting with a new depositor/someone who generates lots of rake and tournament fees and they are being fed better cards, you will also lose very badly.

It's called deal manipulation and will not show up in individual hand histories. The only way to trace it is through having the hand histories for every player at the table and for every hand to go to showdown.

The poker industry will not allow anyone access to this type of information. It would prove once and for all that the deal is shamelessly rigged.

Instead they send their not very bright minions to poker forums to pose as ordinary players and post snide abuse in threads like this.

It's sad and it's crooked - and it's the online poker industry.

Teach it a lesson - withdraw your cash from online poker rooms and send them an email saying you will only play again when they prove they are not manipulating deals.

Let's start standing up for the millions of honest online poker players who risk their hard-earned cash.

And let's start giving a hard time to the dishonest poker rooms - and their representatives here who try to justify the biggest rip-off on the internet.
In case this was overlooked, lets have another look, shall we?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-21-2011 , 02:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blatantlyrigged
In case this was overlooked, lets have another look, shall we?
Making a claim does not make a claim factual or true.

Do you not understand this?
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote
11-21-2011 , 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCS
Making a claim does not make a claim factual or true.

Do you not understand this?
Like when someone claims there is no evidence that OLP is rigged/manipulated?
Sure do, thank you! You actually made sense!
Just wondering, are you from Cleveland?

Last edited by blatantlyrigged; 11-21-2011 at 03:17 AM.
The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition Quote

      
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