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View Poll Results: Is Online Poker Rigged?
Yes 3,445 34.94%
No 5,522 56.00%
Undecided 893 9.06%
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:48 AM   #3151
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by onthelow View Post
Monteroy I have a question for you.

Say you run a test on a site in various categories and majority of them fail. You have powerful data and you can be almost certain your outcomes havent been in the range of expectation.

Do you quit poker? or continue playing in the hopes of...? If thats your answer what hopes are you looking for? or would you just keep playing and say its bad luck. Even though your hard own data tells you otherwise?
This question isn't directed towards me, but I'm going to answer anyway as a fellow non-rigtard, who, for some reason hasn't been accused of being a shill... yet.

Would I quit poker? No, I'd still at least continue playing live. Would I continue online? Well, it depends:

If it's obviously a flaw (benefiting no one), not an intentional rigging, then I'd continue to play because I'd expect the site(s) to fix it as quickly as possible and because I'd expect to continue to be profitable as I have been for years. Probably even more profitable, as I might be able to exploit the flaw before it's fixed (e.g. if kings don't come up as often, then I factor that in to my decisions).

If it's a flaw that may or may not have been intentional, I'd probably move to another site until it's fixed, and then possibly move back depending on how I feel about the site's handling of the situation.

If it was shown to obviously be intentional, then I would avoid the site out of principle, just like with UB and AP.
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:57 AM   #3152
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
QPW and SPADE, what are you guys going to do for a job when they regulate online poker?
It's not actually going to happen, though, is it?

For reasons that have been stated in detail but which you choose to ignore.

Just as you chose to ignore and data and logical reasoning that do not support your idiotic ideas.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:00 AM   #3153
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Of course downswings happen but a guy who beats 100$ SNGs one day cant beat .50c SNGs the next?

Are you trying to suggest the skill level required for 100$ SNGs is the same as .50c SNGs?

Its such an obvious doomswitch by stars.
As always you ignore the salient point and continue to witter on about irrelevancies.

I said:

"If you have AA and get beaten by someone with 22 it makes not one iota of differents what stakes you are playing"

Which part of that did you:

a) Have difficulty understanding?
b) Disagree with (with 'reasons')?
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:06 AM   #3154
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by qpw View Post
As always you ignore the salient point and continue to witter on about irrelevancies.

I said:

"If you have AA and get beaten by someone with 22 it makes not one iota of differents what stakes you are playing"

Which part of that did you:

a) Have difficulty understanding?
b) Disagree with (with 'reasons')?
What has 22 beating AA got to do with anything you moron?

Its not irrelevant that a player beating 100$ sngs cant beat a .50c sng the next,not irrelevant at all? These are D or N sngs also.

Again this leads me to question whether you actually play poker at all.

Post a hand qpw? What site do you play, limits? tourneys?

I dont think you can because you just shill all day dont you?
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:12 AM   #3155
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I too have a conspiracy theory about Pstars...
I am a "professional" player and I've been playing on stars all year, always winning, never had more than a week or so break even stretch, then suddenly, something really weird starts happening::
I win 4k+ in like 12 hrs 20ish tabling the $100 double or nothing S&G's over 4 days. Wayyy above expectation. Ok, luck happens, but then---

For the past 6 days, i haven't even been able to have a winning HOUR on stars, much less a winning session. I even moved down to see if i could win- nope. See, when I run bad, I just refuse to play at high stakes till they "let" me win again, that way I don't tilt huge amounts of $ away. But they aren't letting me win yet. I tried the $6 sit and go's. PLyed like 50 just to see if i could win- nope. then the $5 and $10 double or nothings- nope. Then 25 50 cent nL, down to 5cent 10 cent..-- got CRUSHEd at all levels. I get my $ in usually good and don't win etc. etc. Literally I haven't been able to win at any game on any stakes for 5 days, playing huge fish at low limits,+like 3k I dropped at my regular stakes. Probably a total of like 40-50 hrs playing 1k hands/hr. I mean it has to be a big joke right cause I've been beating 100NL+and mid stakes s&G for 2+years playing almost every day...
So, here's my conspiracy theory for all the tin foil hat ppl and to support op:

A) all my crazy beats and losing happened right around B.Frank introducing the new US online gambling legislation- maybe stars is thinking screw the US players, we might get shut out anyway if this thing passes
B)Stars is thinking screw USA players when they do crap like that UK promo- basically giving away Supernova-- I mean i have to play a lot to get my SNova status
C) I did something I said i would never do-start playing on FULL tilt again, and yesterday and today, i have running totally normal- fish get their $ in bad, & i win.

--now i am not superstitious, and I ran the numbers, and it is entirely possible to me have the bad run i did, especially for as much as I play-- but you really have to wonder sometimes. Does stars hate USA players now?

Doomswitch IMO.
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:24 AM   #3156
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
What has 22 beating AA got to do with anything you moron?
The fact that you cannot even understand a concept as simple as the above, that if you lose a hand because of some specific card fall that is going to happen no mater what stakes you happen to be playing, is significant.

Quote:
Its not irrelevant that a player beating 100$ sngs cant beat a .50c sng the next,not irrelevant at all? These are D or N sngs also.
Of course it's irrelevant. Poker is not like a sport where you expect, for example, a Wimbledon finalist to beat a club junior 99 times out of a hundred or more. It's a game with very high variance that means even a top player can lose, overall, to significantly inferior players for considerable runs.

Thus running bad for a few days or weeks is not unusual even if you do drop stakes.

Quote:
Again this leads me to question whether you actually play poker at all.

Post a hand qpw? What site do you play, limits? tourneys?

I dont think you can because you just shill all day dont you?
Given your execrable understanding of some of the basic principles of variance and probability maths, that's quite funny. I can't see how you could be playing poker unless you are getting lucky at play money games.

Just out of interest, how much do you put on the sites you play each week?
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:26 AM   #3157
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Doomswitch IMO.
(SooperFish24 != Idiot ) == ( !1 )

IMO.
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:33 AM   #3158
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Again this leads me to question whether you actually play poker at all.

Post a hand qpw? What site do you play, limits? tourneys?

I dont think you can because you just shill all day dont you?

I asked you first shill and ive asked you this before.
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:37 AM   #3159
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
The fact that you cannot even understand a concept as simple as the above, that if you lose a hand because of some specific card fall that is going to happen no mater what stakes you happen to be playing, is significant.



Of course it's irrelevant. Poker is not like a sport where you expect, for example, a Wimbledon finalist to beat a club junior 99 times out of a hundred or more. It's a game with very high variance that means even a top player can lose, overall, to significantly inferior players for considerable runs.

Thus running bad for a few days or weeks is not unusual even if you do drop stakes.



Given your execrable understanding of some of the basic principles of variance and probability maths, that's quite funny. I can't see how you could be playing poker unless you are getting lucky at play money games.

Just out of interest, how much do you put on the sites you play each week?
For your first point poker is a skill game with an element of luck. An expert sng player should be able to beat a micro stakes s d or n sng the vast majority of the time.

The lower he plays the less likely it is however he is running will affect his results.

I havent deposited this year and probably wont ever again. I just play with my remaining $ on a few sites and get staked for Limit by a local affiliate.
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Old 05-13-2009, 07:07 AM   #3160
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Again this leads me to question whether you actually play poker at all.

Post a hand qpw? What site do you play, limits? tourneys?

I dont think you can because you just shill all day dont you?

I asked you first shill and ive asked you this before.
Cmon shill answer the question.
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Old 05-13-2009, 07:29 AM   #3161
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by qpw View Post
(SooperFish24 != Idiot ) == ( !1 )

IMO.
lol programmer humor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
For your first point poker is a skill game with an element of luck. An expert sng player should be able to beat a micro stakes s d or n sng the vast majority of the time.
Debatable depending on your definition of "vast majority".
Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
The lower he plays the less likely it is however he is running will affect his results.
Pretty sure how a person is running will *always* affect someone's results.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SooperFish24 View Post
Cmon shill answer the question.
Can you give him more than a half hour to answer? And what does it matter whether he plays or not? I assume he plays, I mean this forum is called "Internet Poker".
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Old 05-13-2009, 08:13 AM   #3162
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
Can you give him more than a half hour to answer? And what does it matter whether he plays or not? I assume he plays, I mean this forum is called "Internet Poker".
Actually I have no more intention of discussing my playing arrangements with the idiot supperdish than I have of discussing relativity theory with my girlfriend's little sister's hamster.

Although I must be honest and say that I do usually encounter more sense coming from the hamster.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:02 AM   #3163
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMoogle View Post
This question isn't directed towards me, but I'm going to answer anyway as a fellow non-rigtard, who, for some reason hasn't been accused of being a shill... yet.

Would I quit poker? No, I'd still at least continue playing live. Would I continue online? Well, it depends:

If it's obviously a flaw (benefiting no one), not an intentional rigging, then I'd continue to play because I'd expect the site(s) to fix it as quickly as possible and because I'd expect to continue to be profitable as I have been for years. Probably even more profitable, as I might be able to exploit the flaw before it's fixed (e.g. if kings don't come up as often, then I factor that in to my decisions).

If it's a flaw that may or may not have been intentional, I'd probably move to another site until it's fixed, and then possibly move back depending on how I feel about the site's handling of the situation.

If it was shown to obviously be intentional, then I would avoid the site out of principle, just like with UB and AP.

Thanks for the respone but you really didnt answer. You beat around the bush especially with the,"it depends."

The question wasnt about knowing if something was wrong with the site. It was, if faced with a decision to quit or stay with ONLINE poker,when your data over a a pretty powerful sample size tells you your records arent statistically in line and that something is wrong, do you stay or leave?
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:30 AM   #3164
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by KingOfFelt View Post
tk is obviously a shill for RealDealPoker.
Stop saying i'm a shill for real deal poker. You think they didn't trace my IP address to verify this? I wouldn't play on real deal poker unless they're traffic reached over 30k in players. Which I don't see happening now with the regulation thats about to happen in the US.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:34 AM   #3165
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

3 players have an ACE and an ACE still flops. What a ****en joke. This happens all the time on PS.

Three piece of ****s with ace rags and you have QQ/KK and ACE still comes. Beyond ****en bull****.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:41 AM   #3166
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by Bobo Fett View Post
tk, who do you propose would be paying them for this? Is there some Internet Poker cabal that pools money from all the sites and pays them? Do you have some actual proof for your ridiculous accusations?
Those aren't the right questions. Why would somebody advocate something so much that's just a regular poker player like us? What benefits do we gain from their crusade? What benefits are they gaining? If players were speculating that it's "rigged," regular ordinary players don't respond they way they do. I mean if online poker is rigged there's more to gain and more reason to question whether it's legit or not. Well, if I were a CEO or a software developer and was wondering why my traffic has been down over 10% the last 3 months, I would certainly hire shills to traffic the most influential online poker forum in the world. Dude nobody takes 9-10 hours out of their day to make a preflop equity graph? To make a thread saying online poker is not rigged? Wouldn't posting in this thread be good enough?
And somebody said congress hasn't mentioned online poker being rigged? Well why is it in fine print on the bill that any use of AI or fraudulent activity by the site would be subjected to 5 years in prison and/or fines? We want it regulated for a number of reasons. We don't need to start a seperate war to win one giant battle.
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Old 05-13-2009, 09:58 AM   #3167
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

**** you PS. You are beyond ****en bull****.

Try losing a coin flip 10 times in a row in a real life. Go on start flipping.

Now try losing 80/20 70/30 ten times in a row. Good luck with that.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:09 AM   #3168
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Dude nobody takes 9-10 hours out of their day to make a preflop equity graph?
About 10 minutes for me actually. You haven't been following this thread:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15...h-beta-452536/

Quote:
3 players have an ACE and an ACE still flops. What a ****en joke. This happens all the time on PS.
With 3 Aces removed, the 4th Ace will flop about 7% of the time. It will hit the full board about 11% of the time. It's your lack of understanding that makes you think these events are jokes, when in fact they should be quite common.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:25 AM   #3169
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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**** you PS. You are beyond ****en bull****.

Try losing a coin flip 10 times in a row in a real life. Go on start flipping.
I'll bet you even money that if I flip a fair coin 1400 times that I'll get at least one streak of 10 heads or 10 tails. If you let me flip it 10,000 times, I'll give you 99:1 odds (the streak is virtually guaranteed).

You really should learn some stats.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:27 AM   #3170
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Stop saying i'm a shill for real deal poker.
But it's perfectly obvious that you're a shill.

Why else would you keep posting near gibberish in support of the view that sites have rigged their RNG if it wasn't for that fact that RealDeal are paying you to shill for them?

How much are they paying you?

Quote:
You think they didn't trace my IP address to verify this?
It's very easy to rig your IP address.

A RealDeal shill suchh as yourself could even get someone at RealDeal to set you up a new IP address. I'm sure they do that for all their shills.

Quote:
Which I don't see happening now with the regulation thats about to happen in the US.
Still living in cloud cuckoo land I see.

Is this the legislation that your uncle is trying to bring in?

Doesn't stand a hope in hell.

You can still make a good living shilling for RealDeal for a good while yet.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:32 AM   #3171
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Originally Posted by tk1133 View Post
Those aren't the right questions. Why would somebody advocate something so much that's just a regular poker player like us?
The real question is why do you spend so much time pretending the RNG's are rigged?

It's obviously because you're a shill for RealDeal.

No question.

Quote:
And somebody said congress hasn't mentioned online poker being rigged? Well why is it in fine print on the bill that any use of AI or fraudulent activity by the site would be subjected to 5 years in prison and/or fines? We want it regulated for a number of reasons. We don't need to start a seperate war to win one giant battle.
All that regulation crap is just a smolescreen to hide the fact that you are a shill for RealDeal.

Everyone knows that regulation at federal level is dead in the water before it even starts.

Come on, tell us how much RealDeal are paying you to shill for them.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:39 AM   #3172
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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But it's perfectly obvious that you're a shill.

Why else would you keep posting near gibberish in support of the view that sites have rigged their RNG if it wasn't for that fact that RealDeal are paying you to shill for them?

How much are they paying you?



It's very easy to rig your IP address.

A RealDeal shill suchh as yourself could even get someone at RealDeal to set you up a new IP address. I'm sure they do that for all their shills.



Still living in cloud cuckoo land I see.

Is this the legislation that your uncle is trying to bring in?

Doesn't stand a hope in hell.

You can still make a good living shilling for RealDeal for a good while yet.
Wow! LoL. Now who's the paranoid rigtard? That's the funniest thing I've ever seen you post! B/c I unlike you am concerned for poker players security and having our hard earned US dollars shipped to Costa Rica and the Isle of Mann. Have you been not following the PPA? The bill is going to be passed. And your sites aren't going to like the change b/c that means they have to oen their doors to their internal operations. Change their whole methods of dealing and ultimately resulting in loss of "profit." We have an Indian Tribe that operates outside of US law, "monitoring" and over seeing 99% of the online poker sites available to US players. The point is this, if online poker isn't as legit as claimed, then my fellow US citizens are getting robbed and embezzled. Notice I say "IF." You try to flood this forum with bull$#@% that simply isn't praised by anybody but poker sites and their CEO's. If there's a one percent chance that it's rigged, it needs to be investigated thoroughly.
Again, I don't care about REALDEAL poker and would probably never play their. Once regulation is passed and your out of a job we won't need realdeal anything...we'll have proof that every deal at any liscensed US online poker site is legit...Thanks QPW, but maybe you should just resign now.I never heard you or spade admit or deny your affiliation with an online pokersite. The closest you came was saying that "It doesn't matter."
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:42 AM   #3173
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

LOL QPW, your starting to look pathetic. My uncle must be their CEO too right? Hiding behind a suit and diplomatic status to launch an online poker website....your a joke QPW, just like the site you work for....
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:44 AM   #3174
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

I came across this and this is why there should be concern for online poker...



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Quote:
Originally Posted by *TT*
As much as I hate to admit it he does have a good point, 99% of the voices screaming bloody murder about Ultimate Bet were never cheated because they dont play limits big enough to play against a superuser account.

Of course that doesnt make it ok, but its still something to ponder.

Do you guys know why cheating has happened, is happening, and will continue to happen in online poker? Because there are people out there that like to say things like this. I know and understand that online poker is extremely important to the health of the poker eco, but to just assume that only high limit play can be affected is just crazy.

Smart cheaters would do this kind of stuff to low limit players for 10 hours per day and make millions a year doing so, but they unlike these idiots that got caught no one would ever suspect anything.

I think that the 99% of the other people have a reasonable suspension that even they might have got cheated.

Silly little example to show my point


Player X: Bank Roll = 1 million Dollars

Player 99%: Bank Roll = $1000 Dollars

Let's say that player X was cheated out of $200,000. This is really bad and it sucks that they where cheated for that much money no doubt I'd be furious and I might even go after the person that cheated me if possible.

Now let's say player 99% was cheated by a "smart" cheater. One that realized that cheating lower limit players will never be uncovered cheating this player out of $200 dollars. This is really bad and it sucks that they where cheated for any money. There is no one fighting for them to have their hand histories checked out. There is no one crying bloody murder except that person that feels they might have been cheated. No one listens and the only ones that do listen are telling them they are crazy for feeling this cause why would anyone cheat the lower limit players? Answer... because they would NEVER be caught.

Even the most secure computer networks in the world have been hacked into. They tend to be hacked by really smart people that would realize cheating the $3/$6 players 10 hours per day 365 days per year would get them a crap load of cash. Let's pretend they only cheated a little and they only brought in $1000 per day ($100 per hour) X 10 hours X 365 days per year that would be (easy math) $365,000 per year. Again greed is the factor with cheaters. Why would they only want to make $365,000 a year? They don't, they have 10 computers or just 10 tables going at the same time all making $1000 per day X 10 hours per day X 365 days per year = look $36.5 million per year only cheating low limit players at a very slow rate of $100 per hour avg. per table.

Of course the above example might not be happening, but then again before the UB and AP scandal's where exposed nobody thought cheating EVER happened like seeing hole cards and such.
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Old 05-13-2009, 10:45 AM   #3175
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Re: The great "Poker is rigged debate" - Collected threads edition

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Wow! LoL. Now who's the paranoid rigtard? That's the funniest thing I've ever seen you post! B/c I unlike you am concerned for poker players security and having our hard earned US dollars shipped to Costa Rica and the Isle of Mann.
Concerned for poker players?

You mean concerned to shill for your employers, RealDeal.

Come on, tell us how much they are paying you.

You can forget about US regulation. It just isn't going to happen.

You'll still be able to shill for RealDeal.
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