$10.75 an hour plus the parties are off teh hook...

PokerStars also used to show the BMM logo on their RNG page but they've removed it. If you email BMM and ask them why, you'll get a very interesting response...

It's actually 'per post'.

So,thanks for the opportunity to make some easy money.

You mean the morans who don't even understand the basics of capitalisation?

It would be nice to think that there's only one person who is that stupid and he's just putting himself about a bit.

found this:


"Thank you for your inquiry.

BMM performed limited analysis of the RNG algorithm in 2004. The algorithm was found to be adequate for the intended use. That said, BMM did NOT evaluate the implementation of the RNG, the operating systems, the games, or any other functionality, which is always required in more regulated gaming jurisdictions, certainly in live casinos. In terrestrial based gaming any time game software is modified, it is reevaluated and certified to ensure continued compliance to the jurisdiction’s technical standards.

BMM has not been engaged to conduct any other work for this company since the original engagement and, again, it was a very limited scope. BMM cannot attest to the site’s technical compliance OR non-compliance as the analysis performed by BMM may be performed on an on-going basis by another independent test lab or by the regulator themselves.

In addition, BMM has asked PokerStars on numerous occasions to remove any reference to BMM from the web site, obviously to no avail.

If you have questions about the site’s compliance to technical standards, please contact the MCK. If you are not comfortable playing the site and are interested in continuing to play online poker, I would encourage you research other operators until you find one with which you are comfortable.


Kindest Regards,

Richard Williamson "

In the electronic world of online gambling, licensing and audits are not something that can be assumed. And even when a gaming web site says it is licensed and audited, the players may want to check more closely about the audits details to what sort of audit it was, how far it went, and what was the result. The result is an important aspect that gaming establishments typically do not reveal to the public. Any poker or gaming company can have an audit. If the fraud is really clever, the audit could come out "clean." But suppose the audit discovers, for example areas in which controls or software applications are weak, or in which employees (or third party hackers) have access to sensitive information, or in which the company is behaving in reality much differently from its public statements. What happens next? If the audit report is unavailable (and it is always unavailable), how does the public know that problems have been detected and solved?

Sadly the true reality is that we as players don't and never will know the true extent of any gaming sites legitimacy several Auditors and Evaluators have become known as reliable monitors of the competence and honesty of reputable online casinos and poker sites but Poker stars And full tilt among others evade or duck these corporations below as a third party audit:

Accounting Firm: Price-Waterhouse Coopers (PWC).
Accounting Firm: KPMG.
eCOGRA
The Online Gaming Alliance (OGA
Certified Fair Gambling (CFG)
iTech Labs

if pokerstars and tilt and the rest of these offshore shady sites had these corporations stamp of approval I would consider my self either a bad player, or it was a bad run, he got lucky etc etc!

Great post John they soon forget BMM and just display the cobwebbed Citigal audit

So true

Arthur Anderson were known as 'reliable monitors of competence and honesty'.

It doesn't matter how much auditing and checking is carried out, rigtards will always suspect that something is wrong with the site rather than accept the truth; that it is their own bad play that causes them to lose.

No you wouldn't. You may truly believe that at the moment but people who will not take responsibility for their own shortcomings do not suddenly change as a result of actions relating to a third party.

Found to be a random RNG.
Likely referring to electronic slots, video poker, etc, not actual live table poker. It is impossible to audit and regulate the randomness of the live dealer staff because they are never going to be a cohesive, consistent unit.
Stars RNG has not been modified. There is absolutely no need to modify an RNG that has been deemed random. Random is random is random ad infinity. Stars client software upgrades != RNG modifications. They are separate. Therefore there is no need to re-certify because it's still the same, unmodified since that time RNG.

Seems like BMM saw things differently.

I am happy with 3 riffles. I would take one riffle live over your RNG any day! I would be more satisfied if they just collected the cards and then cut the deck instead of using your RNG. WHY? Because even though that wouldn't be completley random, it is not picking who should win the hand and then deal certain cards to make that happen like your RNG was desinged to do. Yea, that's what I think your RNG does and there is nothing you can say or show me to prove that it doesn't. I would just have to trust everyone who deals with the RNG.
Maybe random isn't the word I should be using since you think your RNG is better because it riffles so many times or whatever it does... I should've said it is fair and honest. The machine and system can not pick certain cards to be dealt and doesn't pick certain players to win on certain hands. I don't care how many times your RNG riffles, shuffles and whatever, if it has the ability to deal certain cards or choose a player to win, then it is not fair and honest. And knowing actual objects were being shuffled and having a reputable 3rd party company verify that any single hand was fair gives me a lot more confidence then the poker sites word. It uses real cards, can be verified that the algorithm used for your deck was the correct one and traced back to the start to see that nothing was set up. How is that not more proof then an RNG hand that can't be audited and can't even be proven if somebody set the hand up or not? You could change the entire code to the RNG over night and players wouldn't know. I'm not saying you guys set up hands, but the RNG picks players to win because of the way it was designed. I'm wrong right? Well you can't prove it. Show your entire code and that still wouldn't mean it's gonna be fair when I play. I would be taking the sites word for it, but I know this guy and I trust him, his system, and his team.And if that's not good enough, I can get a third party company to come in and give me their word too. Who the hell works on your RNG???
Yea, it could be manipulated, that's why this system has an option for the players to cut the deck which would prevent anybody setting up the deck. If you don't think the cut was real then you can have a third party company audit the hand... The only way to cheat would be to steal the data to get the holes cards just like you would on any site. Bull ****. Knowing your hand was based on physical, shuffled objects is way more proof that the hand was fair, but you also get to cut the deck and the hand can be audited. I know it doesn't matter if everybody thinks it's rigged, because most of them are probably just losing players and don't understand poker. I don't care what they say because of that, and I don't care what are these grinders say either. They have no say in this. They play a ton of tables and don't even watch the hands and players and then just look at the stats later(which don't prove anything) and they say, "oh the odds are right, it's fair!". They just fold and go on to the next table. I've always played one table and watch the cards and who wins the pots and I always see a bunch of bull ****. It's not real poker. And I am talking about one site. I have not played enough on other sites to even comment on them except for that I wouldn't trust them.


You set me up. You're trying to pick me apart and made it hard for me to quote ur post...


By the way... I don't wanna argue in this thread. There is nothing I can say to change your mind and nothing you can say to change mine, so this might be pointless. I just don't trust offshore sites using RNGs and can't take online poker seriously unless they regulate it in the U.S. or my state and design their own RNG.

3 riffles doesnt protect you from someone who is out to cheat you, anymore than RNG auditing does.

There are people who can do 5 riffles, a cut and peel four aces off the top of the deck.

take it to BBV, imo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i got bad beat so many times one night thought id be funny and send fpt an email asking them to take off the doom switch, this is what they said,,,,note the ufo secret socieities and mythical creatures they referred to..

Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Support. Some players like to think that there is a button or switch at online poker sites that when flipped gives players terrible cards and horrible bad beats. The doom switch also has developed a counterpart known as the boomswitch which apparently gives players great cards and makes them unstoppable at the tables. The whole concept of a doomswitch does not make sense for an online poker site. Please understand that a poker site makes its money off of rake which is a small portion of each pot played on the site. A poker site does not want to take your money because once you are broke you can no longer contribute rake. For a poker site, busting players with a doomswitch does not in any way increase revenue. If Full Tilt Poker made players who potentially would have spent many hours of happily playing raked hands on the site go bankrupt to bad beats they would be risking those players trying their luck at another site, or not playing for real money at all. Conversely, giving great cards to all the players who are close to busting would also negatively affect profits. If the consistent players who play poker for a living were consistently losing to players who were getting fed the winning hands they would take their game to another site. This would cost a site a large percentage of players who play multiple tables forty or more hours a week. These players track their hands very closely and would be the first to recognize if there was a statistical discrepancy. Every high stake game you see being played is a statement by every player at the table that they trust the RNG at Full Tilt Poker. Some players come up with more devious schemes for how this doom switch might operate in an effort to maximize profits for a poker site. However, these theories are no less speculative than theories about UFO's, secret societies, and mythical creatures. While it is easy to type up a reasonable motive for a poker site to rig action there is simply no evidence to support it. The fact is that there are thousands of players who record every hand they play, and there has never been a manipulated shuffle discovered over a significant sample size. Players who have recorded a hundred thousand hands or more and taken the time to analyze the statistics simply do not write emails to poker sites accusing them of having a doom switch. Regards, ZbigniewFull Tilt Poker Support

Because you are ******ed.

AKA It wouldn't be at all random.

You are so ******ed that you make blatantly libelous post when there is not one shred of evidence to back them up.

You are the ******'s ******.

Fortunately, it isn't necessary to prove that to the the occasional ******. The vast majority of people have enough good sense to realise that with the vast number of players looking over the shoulders of the sites any anomalies with the RNG woul pretty quickly show up.

Just as in a bricks and mortar casino you have to trust everyone who deals the cards.

However, in a B&M place there is no audit trail of hundreds of millions of hand histories available to check that everything is above board.

So only a complete ****** would trust a B&M casino over a large on line poker site.

Oh, wait ...

LOL .........these theories are no less speculative than theories about UFO's, secret societies, and mythical creatures.

That's golden!!!

Ok, sucker. You believe what you want and i'll believe what I want. You're just another sucker who can't tell what a flawed RNG is. I'm done in this thread unless Josem says something to me.

Who says mythological characters and doom switches dont exist?????? haha

unicorns

^^^ monster is Zbigniew

Which pretty much sums up you 'tards. You seem proud of your ignorance and stupidity.

Nothing can be said to change your mind, as explained above. You could change any normal persons mind by providing a logical and coherent argument but you don't have one because this...

and your inability to win what you would like are the only reasons for making this stuff up.

I hope its not rigged but its hard to trust a dealer who could easily have a cold deck.

Ive been getting some visious bad beats lately and usually on turn river etc.

I lost with AA vs A7 flop A72 go figure .

Even if you play like a nit they find a way to beat you .

For example AK flop KKQ turn Q , all in Q river they have AQ

95% chance to win and losing 4 of those in a row on river

Even if I flop the nuts I usually lose.


Im losing trust in party poker .

vpnnewb,

I don't understand why you are so close minded. If you're not willing to be open to the ideas of others, why are you even in a discussion forum?

lol, well as long as they get the stamp of approval from onlinepokerisascam's list then that's all that matters right? I mean heck why don't you add the other two Big 4 accounting firms to the list. Ernst & Young and Deloitte & Touche would be sad if they knew they were left out.

I get it though, I worked for both of them so they're no longer credible right? LOL.

You have no idea what goes into an audit, or even what kind of audits these firms do. In general though they focus on financial reporting, not testing RNGs, which is more Cigital's area of expertise.

By the way, if Pokerstars didn't use Cigital, then Cigital would be on your list too. According to your logic, we shouldn't trust Google, because Ernst & Young does their audit. Naturally they're ducking KPMG, Deloitte, and PWC, and all the other little firms. Obviously they should be hiring all of them and wasting as many resources as possible to have the same thing done multiple times.