But we see the cards dealt, and we analyse their frequency, and find that they are dealing fairly, randomly as we would expect.

In your example, you seem to think that because you see the cards shuffled in front of you, that it is legitimate. That is the wrong way to look at it: seeing the cards shuffled is no guarantee that it is done fairly.

The only way to determine the fairness of a shuffle is to look at the outcome. The fairness of the shuffle is purely judged by the results of the shuffle, which is there for anyone to look at (and has been posted in this thread repeatedly).

Yes I see what you mean, that totally weird. Because first I have never found anymore posting by Bob Smith on the Internet. The posting I copied and pasted is quite common across the Internet.
There is a slight suspicious indicator I notice right away. In the posting I copied, Bob Smith never called it Full Tilt but fulltilt, and most of time lower case letters where used, unless it was a start of a sentence.
The second thing, at the web site http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/FullTilt, you don't have to use your real name. I got by, by using old_moose.

Oh well, one day Bob Smith will come to the front, then can ask him direct about all posting.

I plan on cornering Santa Claus one day with some questions, too.

hey I would love to see them, steer me in the right direction.

Start with reading the thread.

First I'm quite new to boards, and still trying to understand the terminologies used. Therefore are you making reference to this thread? If not steer me to where you are refering too. As for this thread, I'm slowly adsorbing everyones postings. So far I got to page 5, found a lot of complaining regarding bum hands and people feeling it is rigged. There has been no real posting yet, that I would say, "Boy that one for the "NO" side of the debate. maybe it coming.

Best

Does the fact that there has been no post yet proving that Lizard People exist support the argument that there are Lizard People?

Do you see why asking to prove the negative is horrible logic? The fact that millions of hands have been analyzed and not once has there been evidence of rigging is strong evidence in itself that there probably isn't rigging going on.

Yes, I am talking about this thread. What you need to understand, is that this thread is an amalgam thread: all the threads discussing rigged RNGs are thrown into this thread.

There is no question there is a lot of fluff/insults/humour. But there are a lot of diamonds in the rough. Keep reading, and you will have a much rounder view.

You dont say? Good chap, would you perhaps know of any sites that have this "Real Deal" aspect?

wat.

Welcome to my ignore list. If you're not a troll (doubtful), you're more useless to try to discuss anything with than a brick wall. Enjoy using this as evidence of "protectors" insulting you.

Oh, c'mon, how could you not vote for the last option? That would be the blank one.

I'm proud of you and you should get a pat on the back. Why a pat, because of the logic you used. Your logic is a good way to think, but there is a backlash. I hope I don't bore you because it long drawn out story.

For the top of the agenda, there will never be any solid enough evidence to convict anyone to start with. Why, unless somebody confesses under oath, who going to know if the software is rig or straight as an arrow.

The next thing that may happen, police raiding the servers on the island. This is about as doultful as there is humans on the moon. Besides, these people are smart and wise, they likely to have a real solid connection with the police, who love the extra cash that comes their way.
Anybody who as the experience of living in some of these foreign country, would nod their head and agree with me 150%.

Like I'm trying to explain, unless somebody confesses or the computers are grabbed and the software
downloaded. Nothing going to happen. Even if they did unload the computers, what good is it going to do. Now to explain the last sentence. The computers have software, but it in machine or object code. Therefore you can't de-compile it (This I know was true several years ago, but today they may have newer methods) so who going to read it to see if it is rigged. What they may do (police), is search the offices and grab the source code. This you can read and see if it is rigged.

But these people are not dumb, they making millions and they know, rigging the software is a crimial offense. Hence, if they are rigging the software, all they will do is, setup the rigging with all instructions, compile it. Run it on the computers, go back to the office and remove all the rigging commands, store until it need again. Or have two copies of the source code, one with the rigging command, another clean as the sheets on a bed. Store the rigging one, in total hiding, and display the clean one to everybody.

This debate reminds me of the baseball players scandal about taking pills or ???? Was there any conclusion to that scandal? I will be dead before the true answer is known regarding this debate. Like I said before, rigged software is a perfect crime.

I see the word RNG getting blame for the rigging. The RNG is as solid as the rock of Gibralter, never will the RNG cheat. It does not matter, who trys it can not happen. In some respect, a RNG is better than a dealer. You can bribe a dealer but you can't bribe the RNG.

The only time rigging can occur, is when the cards are moved from the RNG to the table.

Thanks for your time.

Sorry, there no such thing in these days that I know about. It kind of a dream, to think some thing like this is being develop. I heard a rumor, that someone was tying to put something together. It was something like a wheel with holes and a light. How it really worked I don't know. As I see it,there is plenty of moaning and crying across the Internet regarding the possibility of foul play. So one day, somebody will make something new for cards etc on the Internet.

Here is something to think about, all computers makes a log. Logs and computers are as common as salt on the potato chips. The RNG would make a log, what cards are pickup and for what table. There would be a log for what cards are delivered to what table. This log would be the software's duty. So why can't the logs be compared. The logs should be public domain, then anyone could view certain hands. This would sure put an end to guess whether you are being cheated or not.

Anyway have a good evening

This is worse than 9/11! We're being scammed people! Wake up and go buy a gun! Now! The lizard people are near!

Don't you guys watch Fringe?!

You do talk some old toss, don't you?

I think the only thing you feel is yourself, on a regular basis.

It'll make you go blind.

Because they'd forgotton to label it: 'Bastid!'.

You might not be aware of this, but most poker sites already store a record of every hand you play on your own computer. These records are called "hand histories." They are simply text files that describe everything about the hand -- player names, stack sizes, everyone's actions on every street, your hole cards and those of everyone who went to showdown, all the board cards, etc. -- and these hand histories there for you to use in any way you see fit.

Several years ago, a number of technically oriented online poker players had the same idea at about the same time: Why not write some software that will read these hand histories and keep track of everything for us? How much we won or lost, how often we were dealt pocket aces, how many hands we played on such and such a date, how much we won or lost with pocket pairs from the small blind...whatever they could think of, they put in this software and started selling it to players all over the world.

The two that survived and are most popular are called Poker Tracker and Holdem Manager. Many tens of thousands of people use these programs every day. They keep track of every single thing that happens in every single hand they play. There are plenty of people who have hundreds of thousands of hands in their databases, and they add more every day. You can even find places on the internet where you can buy huge hand histories just so you can study the play of other players.

Now, some of the people who do this are also very suspicious of the sites. They comb over their data bases searching for some kind of proof that some site or other is rigged. They would like nothing more than to be able to show the world they've found proof that a site rigs its deals.

So far, not one person has ever posted anything remotely close to proof of a rigged deal. We see plenty of bad beats, the expected number of statistical anomalies, but nothing that isn't explained (and in fact predicted) by a perfectly fair deal.

That is not proof that everything is fair. It just means that, in spite of what must be many thousands of man-hours spent in searching for it, no one has ever found any proof that the sites rig their deals. Everything that has ever been found falls within the boundaries of a fair deal.

Maybe it's rigged in a way no one has ever thought to look for. That's pretty doubtful with so many people looking for evidence, but it's not impossible. Still, even though it's not impossible that one or more sites rig their deal, you can see why so many people believe them to be fair. It's because all evidence up to now points to fairness.

OMG!!!!!! This is bombastic!!!!!!!!! Here is the inside information you asked for.

A) Of course they still have the source code laying around. How else do you think they release new versions and patches?

B) You've never heard of a decompiler? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decompiler You know WAY less about Computer Science then you think you do. Do not try to debate things like compilation and RNGs on this board. You are up against actual computer scientists like myself. You are way over your head, sir.

C) Decompliers are not new. The first one was developed in 1960: http://www.program-transformation.or...Decompilation1

"Computer Scienctists" or hackers?

Again stop being a hypocrite! If IT makes you go blind please post evidence!Otherwise stop scaring people w/ myths.

I see what you did there....



Old Moose: have you decided to actually read the whole thread yet, or do you expect the "protectors" to write it all out again just for you so you won't think they're "yeller" in answering your accusations?

zing!

False dichotomy

Plink!