I'm sorry you feel that way. But just because we have 100k online does not mean that finances are not tight. Are you married with three kids? If not, then maybe when you have a 5-person family you would understand that finances can be tight even if you have 100k online. Plus, I already said we could have gotten a computer if we felt we needed one. However, please understand that we had already fallen into a poker routine wherein we would play poker together and sweat each other's sessions. So, since our poker routine was working for us, we did not feel a compelling need to get another computer.



Dude, settle down. That's the time stamp that was placed on the email that was received by us. However, we didn't actually open the email until much later that night. That is, we didn't even know it was there. If you must know, we were both up all night before. In the morning, though we had not yet slept, we helped our children for school. We were not on the computer at the time the email was received. Then we went to bed ourselves and slept during the day. We woke up when our children came home from school. We did not get on the computer. We spent the rest of the day with our kids. It wasn't until after they went to bed that night that we finally got on our computer to play a poker session. That's usually the time we find best to play poker. It was then that we discovered the email. I assure you that we were shocked, bewildered, and confused the moment we read the email. It was shortly after that we sent our reply.

Take a moment to realize that someone's situation may be different from yours. And, if you don't have kids, then I assure you that our lives are a lot different. Just because something wouldn't have been the way for you, does not mean that it wouldn't be the way for us.

Something strange is definitely going on here. Will be interesting to see how this one plays out.

AceBluff, and the occasional other doubter, I'm not seeing what OP's angle would be here. I can see only 3 possibilities:

1) He's cheating in some completely different way and has made everything up. Botting, illegal software, etc. But then making up a story like this wouldn't help him in any way.

2) He's cheating in a way more directly related to his posts, like colluding, soft-playing, etc. But again, I'm not seeing how this thread would benefit him. He claims not to play with his wife (or other account for you cynics); FT would catch this lie pretty quick looking at the account histories.

3) He's in control of both accounts, and playing on them exactly as he says he is. This is the only angle that makes any sense, because FT will know exactly when the accounts have played, if they played together, etc. This is certainly plausible. But what is OP's advantage here? Two accounts so regs don't know who they're playing? But then why go back and forth between the two? I just don't see a big enough advantage to be gained here for OP to risk his funds by doing this. Am I missing something?

There needs to be a motive. What is it? I can't see a reasonable one.

18. Here's my latest email I sent in reply to Full Tilt's Security's last email:

I know this is a ftp thread but a stars rep when i said sweating videos wasn't right said they didn't enforce the 1 player per hand rule because they couldn't enforce it.

I don't agree and think it is wrong. But I am pretty sure if just one of you is playing then it is okay.

19. Inspired by Nofx Fan's post, we sent FTPSean an apology:

20. FTPSean responded:

21. To which we replied:

FWIW, I don't think you are allowed to post PMs from other people. Not really a big deal as it pertains to your case, but just saying for future reference.....

They are doing it not by choice. He's been around here long enough to know that he has to be 100% honest and show all the facts.

I'm really feeling pretty bad for them now and the word that keeps crossing my mind is invasive, and this really must be.

I hope for a quick and speedy resolution to this as well, and I have faith in FTP and their security that it will be.

I really hope this will get resolved soon and that you and your wife get your accounts and/or money back at least.

I'm guessing you don't want to disclose your wife and your screennames, because I didn't spot them written out in this thread. If you do, some 2+2 members playing the same limits as you might be able to look into stats and playing patterns which might differ. If you are tracking your hands on a seperate database, you can obviously do this yourself and show us graphs/stats from the last 6 months, which might speed up the process of showing that there are 2 different people behind these 2 accounts.

Evidence-based support in the community will hopefully help your case imo.

Even though fulltilt has done some sketchy stuff in the past when it came to their security, I think most of the situations that seemed to be legit resolved themselves in the long run. And they can definitely not afford additional sketchy stuff to skew their image (in this community) even more, and I think they are aware of that, even though it seems they don't care at all.

Wish you the best of luck resolving this.

I totally agree with nofx fan and i wish every ftp or stars froze my account thread was like the op's here

Op have you got the emails you sent to ftp about the iron man tornament?

Have you got any pt screenshots of yours and your wifes account?

Fwiw i do belive you and hope this get solved asap

Oh and sean needs a gold medal for the work he does on here )

maybe he runs a bot and wants to play a ton of hours without looking suspicious?

Maybe ratholing games that there is usually only a table or two of?

I agree that nothing really stands out as a motive. I think if we had more access to their playing history (like ftp does), hours, etc a clearer motive may present itself.

I'm sort of getting a weird vibe from the OP though. His replies to full tilt seem somewhat fishy.

For some reason I think if he said that the amounts held was a few hundred or a thousand dollars, his statements would look less suspicious. It seems odd to me that someone with a that much money online would have someone over his shoulder on a daily basis. It also seems weird that it was brought up in the first place, like preemptive that he knew the stats were going to look awfully similar.

I think I am biased by his over abundance of information, wording, and storytelling. A lot of it doesn't seem like it would come from someone with 10's of thousands of dollars in their online account. Like mentioning you wish your wife was around one time last year when you tilted.

--------------
Anyways, next time you should prob just click the report spam button in our email client and leave it at that

Im not wanting to argue, what i am pointing out is that you have clearly played as a team with your wife and that is you gaining an unfair advantage over other players.

The poker rule is 100%, 1 player per hand. Just because it doesnt spell it out in ABC in the TOS doesnt mean that it isnt a rule. as an "avid" poker player surely you know the rules?

You have benifited to the amount of $100k+ through playing as a team with your wife and as such that is unfair on the people you are playing against.

Do you think if Joe Bloggs turns up on tilt and wins $2million off Durr and then reveals that he had Ivey, Hellmuth and Brunson sitting behind him debating all the big decisions before he acts that Joe Bloggs should get to keep his money?

to quote FTP TOS: -

10.5. FRAUDULENT BEHAVIOUR

In the event that we discover that you have engaged in fraudulent, unlawful, dishonest or improper activity while using the Software or playing the Games, including without limitation, engaging in any of the activities described above or any other game manipulation, or the making of any fraudulent payment, including without limitation, use of a stolen credit card or fraudulent chargeback or money laundering, then, unless otherwise required or directed by the AGCC in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Alderney eGambling Regulations 2006, we shall be entitled to take such action as we see fit. This might include denying you access to participate in any tournament or to play the Games, terminating your account with us, seizing all monies held in the relevant real money account held with us, disclosing such information (including your identity) to banks, credit card companies and/or any person or entity that has the legal right to such information, and/or taking legal action against you.

Ive bolded the important parts.

Just because they cannot actively track it and enforce it does not mean when someone comes out admitting to doing it that they cannot punish it.

So the honest players get punished... If FTP handles that rule the same as stars, this would be pretty ridiciulous.

Andronicus, you seem legitimate to me.
I wish you the best of luck to get this case solved soon.

P.s.: You are a lucky guy for having found a wife who shares the same enthusiasm for poker. Cool thing.

According to the OP, they have been playing like this for 3 years or more, on the same site. He has also stated he has been completely open and honest with Full Tilt on this matter, and they have never had an issue before.

Furthermore, an unwritten rule is just that, unwritten. If it is not written in black and white, then it cannot be enforced. Taking into account the OP says he's been completely open with the way he and his wife play, Full Tilt would not simply be able to generalize on your bold point(s) in their ToS. In a court of law, doesn't matter where, the question of why they didn't take action against the account when they were informed of the way they play, 3 years ago.

Now, this all of course assuming the OP is being completely honest, which by the amount of detail given, we can only assume that he has been. Add to that that there has been no "official" response by anyone from Full Tilt that would prove the OP is lying. So far, the information provided by them is merely "well, we tracked this that and the other thing, and we have evidence but we're unable to tell you what it is".

Now, flip this around and look at it from another angle... if Full Tilt were violating their own privacy policies, or someone from within their organization is, then perhaps someone somewhere thought the best course of action would be to try and cover their tracks. Covering their tracks in this instance would be the instant banning/locking the account of the person who brought the privacy policy violation to light. It doesn't make sense to 95% of anyone of us here, but it doesn't need to. There have been worse cover up attempts throughout history than this.

I'm not saying that is the case, but you have to look at both sides of the picture... and right now, anyone truly looking at this from the outside in would have to side with the OP. Now, if/when Full Tilt decides to be as open and forthcoming as the OP has been until now, and are able to prove he is lying, cheating, stealing or what have you; while actually disclosing evidence and not just saying "we have it", then we would have reason to doubt the OP.

The truth will eventually come out.. whether it be in the OP's favor, or against him.

No you're right. Just because he admitted it means that he should get away with it. Sigh.

Ill repeat what i said previously and maybe you can comment on that...

Do you think if Joe Bloggs turns up on tilt and wins $2million off Durr and then reveals that he had Ivey, Hellmuth and Brunson sitting behind him debating all the big decisions before he acts that Joe Bloggs should get to keep his money?

This is not 100% accurate is it. In fact its 0% accurate. You are claiming that OP has emailed Full Tilt previously and has told them that he and his wife sit and play together and discuss hands whilst they are playing. If the OP can show us an email prior to this incident where he has said this then i will apologise, but the only time this information has actually come out is since the investigation started.

FYP

People still give their primary email accounts?

At this point the OP has seemingly been nothing but open and honest. If he were lying about anything he's stated, Full Tilt would be bale to call him on it, and actually show proof. They have yet to do this. So far all the OP has been told is "I'm looking in to it" by Sean, and "We have evidence that proves we're right, we're just not able to actually produce said evidence" (in a nutshell) by Full Tilt Security.

So unless they can provide any actual evidence whatsoever that the OP is indeed lying, then I see no need for him to dig up 3 y/o emails. And thus far he has been more than open and seemingly honest about his side of this situation.

If he is lying, it will come out, but as of right now Full Tilt has all but remained completely silent... IMHO the generic auto replies he got from Sean and the "Security team" do not count as Full Tilt actively communicating...

I'm not saying as a general statement that one should get away with a crime when admitting to it. I'm just saying this whole rule is ridiculous if that would be the way they are treating it.

Also, I would assume a lot of pros are doing this constantly. If FullTilt wanted to endorse this rule completely, they should treat these incidents differently. And not just randomly punish someone who they accidentally discover. Coaching and sweat sessions, everyone does it. You can do it if you want to. Call Ivey and Durr and invite them to a beer or something while sweating you.

Your example sounds nice and one would say: omg this is unfair! Just because it's 2 million bucks and because everyone is a durr-fanboy. But come on. Ivey, Hellmuth and the like would
a) have their time better spent doing something else,
b) would probably never do this to other highstakes regs, they have a reputation and are on familiar terms with each other for the most part (assumption)
c) even those guys are coaching each other and sweating each other... So yeah, they're doing it as we speak. You gonna punish them? You think a pokersite should treat their pros differently than someone who supports a large family? (family > durr fanboy - argument imo, haha )

I don't even know why I'm arguing with you, I just think the rule is a bit ridiculous if they can't control it they shouldn't put it into effect. Don't know how you think randomly punishing people who are openly admitting to a thing that they were even asking for permission to do, should be justified.

/semi-Offtopic, sorry for the rant


Any news OP?

OP seems like way too big of a life nit to cheat. If OP is a cheater then WP sir. The real issue to the community is not that OP is being investigated(That would seem standard in this situation). The real issue is how Full Tilt is going about this investigation. These Vague e-mails with veiled threats are simply not good customer service. If OP did break the T&C provide some evidence, and lay it out in a well thought out form. This is exactly why I left Full Tilt, their customer support is just atrocious. OP I can't believe you still want to play at Full Tilt. Do yourself a favor. Contact stars support, tell them exactly what you plan on doing with your accounts and move on.

lol at people thinking that his wife sweating him is wrong. sorry but you guys are clueless. Sweatign sessions happen all the time especially at higher limits. I would guess that at least 90% of top players have been sweated or have sweated someone. Its a major part of online poker. There are post on twoplustwo about setting up sweat sessions... Also the whole FTP controversy was about sharing hand databases not sweating... Why do you think teamviewer is so popular on training sites and with coaches? Teamviewer would be banned software if sweating is not allowed. Oh ya and not too mention the half dozen of week long training camps where coaches sweat you live...

As for OP the whole one computer thing sounds beyond strange. There are so many reasons why playing this way is negative EV. I would imagine you could easily increase your family income by getting a cheap second computer. That being said if what you have posted here is true you will be fine.

The only way here that I could ever see OP cheating would be if he is running a bot from second account while not playing. My guess though is as I first suspected, that transactions deals between the two accounts brought up major red flags.

Hire a lawyer right now.

Anyway something smells bad.

I can't belive that with a 6 figure account in FT, you only have a computer at home:

"We have one computer in our home, so we can only normally play one at a time"

If both of you are good, I can't understand why don't you play at the same time.

IRONMAN!

but seriously, as suspicous as OPs behaviour is, somebody deliberately constructing this story would not be so stupid as to access both accounts within minutes to make two withdrawals when he could easily spread them out over a couple of days/weeks...