Someone else brought up some good points...

The two of you seem to discuss poker quite a bit, does your wife post on any poker forums?

Did you ever post anywhere about your the supermom in your home? Kicking ass at poker and raising 3 kids.

I would be bragging about my wife if she was that good at poker.

I believed you at first, with a bit of skeptisim, but a lot of posters have brought up some good points where things aren't adding up.

Also the identical gramatical errors in both of your emails is a bad sign.

From FTs perspective, I think chat history could be as much of a tell tale sign as hand histories. (Same phrases, misspellings, etc.)

Either way, I am sure you will get your money back, but you were at the very least using the same hand history database, which is not allowed. Two players should never be playing the same stakes from the same household, let alone the same computer imo.

This is the problem. FTP bans accounts seizes funds, and what will happen if they take OP's 100K? Nothing. They are completely unaccountable to anyone but themselves. FTP vaguely accuses people of impropriety and then promptly bans them, seizes their account, and sends them off with a big FFFFFUUUUUUU. This is unacceptable we as customers of this company should expect more. Demand more.

Even in the cases where someone says OMG FT stole my money and turns out to be FOS it is always handled so poorly by FTP customer service. How many times do people have to read threads like this where FTP submits no evidence or reason for their actions?

Whether OP is telling the truth or not, he deserves to have the opportunity to refute claims against him, and call into question the validity of the investigation.

I have little doubt that OP has a wife that plays poker. I have little doubt that they both "win" at poker (whatever that means).

But when you use 2+2 as a vehicle to proclaim your innocence, the burden of proof lies on you, not FTP. Insofar, OP has yet to produce any type of evidence that actually should lead one to believe s/he may be innocent. All s/he has done is posted emails about the ordeal where wife and husband are said about 1000 times. Other than that, I actually see nothing that suggests OP didnt collude or TOS violations.

This is all handwaving and backtracking. Having a corroborated story with history means nothing. In the simplest sense, this "story" completely follows the exact same blueprint where friends create accounts in other people's names, son's create accounts in their dad's name, etc etc. and they all get laughed off this board. So far, I see nothing that indicates this isn't exactly the same ploy.


edit: and fwiw, if you carefully read each email they are written with the exact same cadence. Try and speak each sentence, and you'll soon realize that their sentence structures are exactly the same.

I mentioned it upthread and got no comment, but does anybody have an issue with this? Family of five and most of their money is stuck away in online poker accounts? I'm really hoping for the sake of the kids that OP and wife can now see the absurdity of this situation.

OP, FT is not a bank, you do not have access to your funds at the drop of a hat. Furthermore, if your bank gets robbed, they have insurance and your money is 100% secure. Imagine if someone installed a keylogger in your one computer? $100k+ gone and no recourse whatsoever.

BO

no way two people collectively decide to play a hand this bad

Andronicus,

1. Your accounts were suspected of multi-accounting.

2. You have stated and portrayed yourself as innocent.

3. Details regarding your situation are inconsistent.

4. Data exists that refute your statements and answers.

5. Unsolicited information provided do not support your claims.

6. You asked for your account balances to be consolidated.

7. You asked for one of the accounts to remain open.

8. A detailed and thorough investigation is pending.

9. A fair determination and final decision is coming.

Online poker sites may allow multiple accounts within the same residence providing that the account holders follow all terms and conditions for opening, operating and transacting with these accounts.

Multi-accounting creates unfair advantages over your opponents which violates the integrity of the game.

In your correspondence you have freely and openly admitted to multiple violations of the terms and conditions.

OP, the issue is not about multi accounting. for MA i am 90% theyd give you your money, and tell you to stop.

most likely they think you have cheated. like collusion cheating. not MA cheating.

nitty BO, I also thought it was ******ed that they keep most of their money in online poker accounts, bit i figured i'd keep the financial advice in BFI section.

secondly, don't pay attention to the ******s itt flaming you w/ their detective work. they don't have anything to bust you for (like previous cases) so they are reaching for every possible idiotic clue.

i feel with 100k online, and a solid WR at MSNL, there is very little incentive to do ANYNTHING remotely shady. most of the cheater threads i have read on 2+2 are nothing like your case.

so I hope FTP could finish up the investigation and put this issue to rest.

I've skimmed through the thread, and haven't seen it posted: Has OP offered up the screennames of he and his wife?

I would be super highly skeptical of someone that refuses to offer this information. If he is innocent, the 2p2 detectives can quickly verify this via PTR, databases, and personal experiences. An innocent person with 6 figures seized (and 3 hungry children..very hungry children, so hungry that a 100k bankroll can't buy two computers) would simply say, my screenname is X, my wife's screenname is Y, you guys check us out, we did nothing wrong.

Failure to provide this information would lead me to assign a near 99% probability of the OP being guilty. Sorry, if you want the 2p2 community to work on your behalf to get your funds unfrozen, you need to give us the relevant details. You lose your right to anonymity when you attempt to try your case in the court of public opinion.

That was a post I made last September (long before this happened to us). So, I guess they were prophetic words. I've always thought Full Tilt needs to be more fair and give better service to its rank and file members.

Also, how does Full Tilt treat its rank and file members compared to their Red Pros? According to them, they hold their pros to a higher standard:

"In fact, we often have to be tougher on our Red Pros than our players because not only do they represent our site, they are looked up to by players as role models... we have to hold our Red Pros to a higher standard." http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1169

Sometimes it seems like the opposite is true. We'll see if that holds true here.

As I stated, my quote was taken out of context. Please see post #366 for clarification.

Again, see post #366.

We don't even have another desk or anywhere to put it. So, we'd have to buy a lot more than just what you are saying.

Making the most money possible is not our priority. If making the most money possible was our #1 priority, then we'd probably have already done something like that. But, it's not. I understand that may be a difficult concept for a lot of people here to understand. I understand that money is a top priority for a lot of you. It's not ours. Our top priorities are not monetary. We'd rather spend time together as a couple, spend time with our kids, and to try to enjoy life.

Serious? I don't think you get it. This time my wife and I have to ourselves. We don't have kids around or anyone else. It's just she and me. And we don't just talk poker. We talk about the kids, about our day, about life in general. We laugh, joke, and overall just spend some good time together. We have come to really look forward to these times. We feel it has made us a stronger couple. And now you want us to put a second computer in the hallway? I guess that again comes down to priorities. That would not be enjoyable for us. Making the most money possible is not our highest priority.

Cause we don't want to play poker all the time. We'd rather play several tables and get some hands in so we can then have more time to do other stuff (like spend it with our kids, go outdoors, go on a vacation, etc.). Having two big monitors also helps us watch the other's play.

We're not computer gurus, so we couldn't really argue with you. We always felt we needed a pretty good computer system to prevent freeze ups and stuff like that during play.

I guess we just didn't see the need for having so many computers. We used to have an old clunker computer in the kids room, but that hasn't worked in years. When it broke down, it never seemed like much of a problem to have just one computer in the house.

We both tried calling, but without success. My wife called the Dublin number and I called the other. I talked about it in one of my earlier posts. See above.

My wife is not like that. We are supportive of each other. We are just surprised our play would cause this much trouble. But, we'll change our play for the future. Namely, we'll play on different sites.

Hopefully this has now been cleared up. Let me know if it hasn't.

Thanks. We appreciate the support.

Thank you.

Because from time to time we would/could both qualify for tournaments. This included things like free rake race tournaments, iron man tournament, etc. We could also sign up for the same tournament.

Of course you are right we would have had to borrow someone's laptop again or go to our parents or something like that. Borrowing a laptop from time to time to both play in the same tournament would not have been that difficult. But, we just decided it would be better to not sign up/play in the same tournament ever at all.

There are also very limited occasions where one of us played a little another person's house (like our parents or a friend), but this happened maybe only once a year or so. Again, however, regardless of where we were, we never played on the same table.

Without borrowing a laptop or getting another computer, you are right; it would be impossible to do at home. I'm not sure on this, but even if we had another computer, would the Full Tilt client have even let us play on the same table?

We could have borrowed a laptop if we ended up in the same tournament (for whatever reason). Or, one of us could have gone to our parents to play. I don't know--I guess it is a matter of semantics. Maybe we should have said that it was impossible to play together at home since we have only one computer, and the very few instances one of us played somewhere else, we did not play together.

We simply titled them as "husband graph" and "wife graph" to help avoid any confusion. I mean, people here already got confused about a statement I made when it was taken out of context (about playing on the same table). Frankly, we don't post images very often on here. So, we were struggling a little figuring it out. The names we gave the graphs were to simply avoid confusion.

I have my database. My wife has hers.

It's actually really easy. You just click on Database Management, click connect, then you can manage your databases. You can then switch between databases pretty easily. Just click the database you want to switch to, set as default, and click start.

Any marginal reward we may have gotten from playing on the same site is not worth the risk of suspicion. From now on, we're going to play on different sites. If anyone has a spouse, brother, sister etc. that plays on the same site as you, we highly recommend one of you starts playing on another site instead. I promise, you don't want to go through what we have.

We are not using, and have not ever used bots.

Thank you. We appreciate the support.

We would hope that investigations are better than those from the dark ages.

We did. We both called. My wife called one number. I called the other. We did not have much success.

That's just text that is automatically put in by our email provider. We have nothing to do with it.

I've already discussed why this would be bad for us, not the least of which is that all of sudden we have lots of people studying every inch of our game. I don't know if we'd ever be able to win at poker again. Also, my wife asked me not to release her screen name, and on that request alone, I won't. I listed a bunch of other reasons in an earlier post as well.

I was tired when I read the quote and took it out of context like a few others did ><

Been following along catching up tonight I see that you are on OP so I am gonna try to lend a helping hand.
Go to the first page of this thread to post 9 get it on your monitor. Have a kid take a picture of you and your wife with your hands over your faces where we can see the pose and the monitor with the image in post 9. high resolution picture, if you want to block your faces better then write "2+2" on 2 pieces of paper and cover your faces with that. It would even give more weight if you can have a kid in front of each of you again fine to cover faces and have the third kid take a picture. You should have no problem doing this in 15 minutes. If you can do that it will add a tremendous amount of weight to the doubters.

I could lean either way, being an analytical type I'm inclined to believe something is shady going on. Still isn't going to convince all but it will add <i>some</i> more credibility.

The hand history thing is what I'm waiting to be dug up.

Yep, both of whom are married with 3 kids.

You might choose to cite Annie Duke instead. Who would have exactly zero chance of crushing 5/10 online.

So... nice try.

FWIW, I have met and corresponded with thousands of poker players in my years on this forum, playing live, and playing online. Many of those were women, and many of those were married men or in committed relationships. I have yet to hear even a HINT of a woman like the one you describe as your wife.

I was also married to a hot female computer programmer, who knew all five other hot female computer programmers in Silicon Valley. So I don't want to hear any crap about how I am sexist, or that I don't understand that women can thrive in a male-dominated field.

Sure, it's possible that OP's wife exists as described, and that together they have made truly baffling decisions with regards to IT resources, time management, and money management, despite being smart enough to crush 5/10 while raising 3 kids.

But it's also possible that OP is FOS. I guess everyone will have to decide for themselves which is more likely.

Enter the name of the supervisor who emailed you. They are probably in that office.

Yeah...Im surprised more people don't see it this way.

Somewhere the real cheaters of online poker are LTAO at this thread. I wish the sites would just get a clue and go after the real culprits instead of the average Joes and Janes who fit their FU'd profiles some moron made up to snatch a certain number each week to fill their quotas and justify their salary. It's all BS. Everyone here knows how hundreds and hundreds, thousands and thousands of people are cheating every day and yet nobody talks about that, they talk about this guy who plays on the same computer as his wife instead.

[ ] has read this thread

If you have nothing to hide and actually are telling the truth, reveal your screen names. If you are unwilling to do this, you cannot expect to be taken seriously just because you took out a lot of time to fabricate a story.

Put up or shut up

In your correspondence you have freely and openly admitted to multiple violations of the terms and conditions.

Exactly.

Any small reward we would've gained by Iron Man, etc. would not be worth it. We file a joint tax return, so there is no benefit there. We both played on Full Tilt because we liked the site a little better. We had no idea it would cause us all this trouble.

Thanks. That's pretty much how we feel. Even when we posted some graphs, we started getting attacked every which way. Probably the worst are the suggestions that my wife couldn't be a good mother and play that many hands of poker. We find that so insulting.

Yes, taking care of kids is a full time job. That is why we share the responsibility of it equally. And no, we don't play 40 hours of poker a week. We play far less than that. It's baffling to us that so many people seem unable to comprehend that a father can be just as nurturing (or sometimes even more so) than the mother.

Thanks for your support.

My wife feels that most of the posters on Two Plus Two are sexist teenage boys or mid 20-year old men. She doesn't feel she can relate to very many of the posters here. She has browsed the forums a little bit, but she doesn't really like what she has seen. She has especially not liked the stuff in BBV4Life.

After reading some of the responses in this thread, I have to agree with her that a lot of people on here are sexist. Just think about how many people on here have already said (or implied) that she could not be a good mother and play poker at the same time.

Since we still don't have an update from FTP, is this one giant level and an advertisement for Stars?

Not in cash or SnG, but in MTTs, yes it is allowed from the same IP/connection.

Thanks for the answers. I think you have been honest.

Multi-accounting creates unfair advantages over your opponents which violates the integrity of the game.

Many people consider the winrate "your wife," is achieving to require quite a lot more time than the 1 hour a day she spends playing. I am not implying that you don't have a wife...simply that she may, or may not be the one actually playing under "her," account.

Some people ITT are to harsh on OP and need to wait till FTP comes to a decision in a few days. I don't believe OP was Multi-accounting or colluding (just my gut feeling) and I hope FTP get to the bottom of it soon.

I don't like people who Multi-account and I wish the sites would perma-ban those who do instead of slap them on the wrist as they do now, but the sites needs real concrete proof before taking such a measure. Some high stakes players have or may still be Multi-accounting and sites should do more to stop it (at all levels). I just feel/hope op is innocent and it works out for him and his family.

I'm just glad Full Tilt doesn't use this as the measure with which to determine guilt or innocence...given that they would have left a lot of cheaters in their games if every thread that had people believing in them was all they needed.