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Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players’ accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players’ accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010

03-17-2010 , 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andronicus
Some people on here have suggested that since few women are good poker players, it is unlikely that my wife is a good poker player. It seems like someone said something like they couldn't even think of a single female that played mid-stake online poker well. Off the top of my head, Vanessa Selbst and Annette Obrestad are names that I think people would recognize. Here's a list of some other good female poker players:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor..._poker_players

Also, people are committing a fallacy when they say, "It is very unlikely for a woman to be good poker player. Therefore, it is very unlikely for OP's wife to be a good poker player." This fallacious thinking. It is sometimes referred to as the Prosecutor's Fallacy. Here's a good explanation of it:

http://pokersleuth.com/fallacy-prosecutor.shtml

There are plenty of women that play poker well. These women may not be in your circle of male dominated friends does not mean they are not there.
Someone else brought up some good points...

The two of you seem to discuss poker quite a bit, does your wife post on any poker forums?

Did you ever post anywhere about your the supermom in your home? Kicking ass at poker and raising 3 kids.

I would be bragging about my wife if she was that good at poker.

I believed you at first, with a bit of skeptisim, but a lot of posters have brought up some good points where things aren't adding up.

Also the identical gramatical errors in both of your emails is a bad sign.

From FTs perspective, I think chat history could be as much of a tell tale sign as hand histories. (Same phrases, misspellings, etc.)

Either way, I am sure you will get your money back, but you were at the very least using the same hand history database, which is not allowed. Two players should never be playing the same stakes from the same household, let alone the same computer imo.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 03-18-2010 at 09:35 AM.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players’ accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggo
i mean, pretty much this.

We all know that when FTP bans accounts and refuses to payout the remainder of the account, they always refuse to cite specific cheating instances in accordance with keeping their "anti-cheat-detecting-method-analysis-protocol" intelligence secretive insofar that you effectively get banned without exactly knowing what you did wrong. Regardless of the whether you were right or wrong (lol).

Providing HHs will prove that there wasnt any collusion being attempted. Showing session times not overlapping would further corroborate OPs statement that they only had 1 computer, not rejoining tables as a shortstack by switching accounts shows that they are not trying to circumvent the system etc etc.
This is the problem. FTP bans accounts seizes funds, and what will happen if they take OP's 100K? Nothing. They are completely unaccountable to anyone but themselves. FTP vaguely accuses people of impropriety and then promptly bans them, seizes their account, and sends them off with a big FFFFFUUUUUUU. This is unacceptable we as customers of this company should expect more. Demand more.

Even in the cases where someone says OMG FT stole my money and turns out to be FOS it is always handled so poorly by FTP customer service. How many times do people have to read threads like this where FTP submits no evidence or reason for their actions?

Whether OP is telling the truth or not, he deserves to have the opportunity to refute claims against him, and call into question the validity of the investigation.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players’ accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 09:50 PM
I have little doubt that OP has a wife that plays poker. I have little doubt that they both "win" at poker (whatever that means).

But when you use 2+2 as a vehicle to proclaim your innocence, the burden of proof lies on you, not FTP. Insofar, OP has yet to produce any type of evidence that actually should lead one to believe s/he may be innocent. All s/he has done is posted emails about the ordeal where wife and husband are said about 1000 times. Other than that, I actually see nothing that suggests OP didnt collude or TOS violations.

This is all handwaving and backtracking. Having a corroborated story with history means nothing. In the simplest sense, this "story" completely follows the exact same blueprint where friends create accounts in other people's names, son's create accounts in their dad's name, etc etc. and they all get laughed off this board. So far, I see nothing that indicates this isn't exactly the same ploy.


edit: and fwiw, if you carefully read each email they are written with the exact same cadence. Try and speak each sentence, and you'll soon realize that their sentence structures are exactly the same.

Last edited by aggo; 03-17-2010 at 09:56 PM.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players’ accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andronicus
At least we’ll have access to our bankroll—something our family needs pretty bad right now.
I mentioned it upthread and got no comment, but does anybody have an issue with this? Family of five and most of their money is stuck away in online poker accounts? I'm really hoping for the sake of the kids that OP and wife can now see the absurdity of this situation.

OP, FT is not a bank, you do not have access to your funds at the drop of a hat. Furthermore, if your bank gets robbed, they have insurance and your money is 100% secure. Imagine if someone installed a keylogger in your one computer? $100k+ gone and no recourse whatsoever.

BO
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players’ accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 10:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder
If anyone really wants to figure out the OP's identity to look up stats and history, he posted a hand history on this forum a while back and gave the screen name for the player in the hand with him, and it was a well-known mid-stakes regular. All you have to do is find that player's hands for the date of the hand, on PTR (where I have no subscription) or a similar tracking site.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/56...d-i-do-347723/

OP is button.
no way two people collectively decide to play a hand this bad
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players’ accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 10:14 PM
Andronicus,

1. Your accounts were suspected of multi-accounting.

2. You have stated and portrayed yourself as innocent.

3. Details regarding your situation are inconsistent.

4. Data exists that refute your statements and answers.

5. Unsolicited information provided do not support your claims.

6. You asked for your account balances to be consolidated.

7. You asked for one of the accounts to remain open.

8. A detailed and thorough investigation is pending.

9. A fair determination and final decision is coming.

Online poker sites may allow multiple accounts within the same residence providing that the account holders follow all terms and conditions for opening, operating and transacting with these accounts.

Multi-accounting creates unfair advantages over your opponents which violates the integrity of the game.

In your correspondence you have freely and openly admitted to multiple violations of the terms and conditions.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players’ accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 10:17 PM
OP, the issue is not about multi accounting. for MA i am 90% theyd give you your money, and tell you to stop.

most likely they think you have cheated. like collusion cheating. not MA cheating.

nitty BO, I also thought it was ******ed that they keep most of their money in online poker accounts, bit i figured i'd keep the financial advice in BFI section.

secondly, don't pay attention to the ******s itt flaming you w/ their detective work. they don't have anything to bust you for (like previous cases) so they are reaching for every possible idiotic clue.

i feel with 100k online, and a solid WR at MSNL, there is very little incentive to do ANYNTHING remotely shady. most of the cheater threads i have read on 2+2 are nothing like your case.

so I hope FTP could finish up the investigation and put this issue to rest.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 03-18-2010 at 09:37 AM.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players’ accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 10:28 PM
I've skimmed through the thread, and haven't seen it posted: Has OP offered up the screennames of he and his wife?

I would be super highly skeptical of someone that refuses to offer this information. If he is innocent, the 2p2 detectives can quickly verify this via PTR, databases, and personal experiences. An innocent person with 6 figures seized (and 3 hungry children..very hungry children, so hungry that a 100k bankroll can't buy two computers) would simply say, my screenname is X, my wife's screenname is Y, you guys check us out, we did nothing wrong.

Failure to provide this information would lead me to assign a near 99% probability of the OP being guilty. Sorry, if you want the 2p2 community to work on your behalf to get your funds unfrozen, you need to give us the relevant details. You lose your right to anonymity when you attempt to try your case in the court of public opinion.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players’ accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by analoguesounds
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=13490005&postcount=108

Prophetic words in my opinion:
Quote:
The outrage comes NOT from FTP trying to protect their players. The outrage comes from most of us believing in at least some rudimentary form of due process. Namely, OP at least ought to know what he is being accused of and have a chance to defend himself. FTP gives these players none of that. It is very bothersome.

How do we know that FTP banned OP for suspected botting? We don't. FTP makes these bannings without giving any disclosure whatsoever. What would it hurt for FTP to state, "We suspect your account was a bot" or whatever else was the reason? And, why would it hurt to give OP a chance to defend himself? If they think he was a bot, and he can show chat he made, pocket aces and quads he folded, and other human-like mistakes, surely that should be enough to defend himself.

FTP has taken on the role of judge, jury, and executioner. As judge, jury and executioner, FTP provides no explanation for what OP is being accused of or what their reasons are for coming to their decision. Many of us simply want FTP to tell their players what they are being accused of and give their players a chance to defend themselves. That's all. Is that really to much to ask?
That was a post I made last September (long before this happened to us). So, I guess they were prophetic words. I've always thought Full Tilt needs to be more fair and give better service to its rank and file members.

Also, how does Full Tilt treat its rank and file members compared to their Red Pros? According to them, they hold their pros to a higher standard:

"In fact, we often have to be tougher on our Red Pros than our players because not only do they represent our site, they are looked up to by players as role models... we have to hold our Red Pros to a higher standard." http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1169

Sometimes it seems like the opposite is true. We'll see if that holds true here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exceptional
This is the main point here and something that it appears we have missed. The OP quite clearly states...



This needs explaining further because...



It seems that the more you actually look into what the OP has written, the more little details conflict with each other.
As I stated, my quote was taken out of context. Please see post #366 for clarification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjhmdm
Yeah, OP's gonna need to explain that one because that little paragraph alone puts a whole new twist on the entire issue.
Again, see post #366.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NANONUTS
On what? Another two monitors can be bought for $300-$400. So that's $800 in total. And for that $800 you get to double your income. It's a no-brainer.
We don't even have another desk or anywhere to put it. So, we'd have to buy a lot more than just what you are saying.

Quote:
Did it never cross your minds that you would nearly double your income with a second machine? How did that conversation go?
You: "Honey maybe we should spend a couple of hundred on a new machine and we can make an extra 100K+ this year?"
Her: "What?? Thats a terrible idea"
Making the most money possible is not our priority. If making the most money possible was our #1 priority, then we'd probably have already done something like that. But, it's not. I understand that may be a difficult concept for a lot of people here to understand. I understand that money is a top priority for a lot of you. It's not ours. Our top priorities are not monetary. We'd rather spend time together as a couple, spend time with our kids, and to try to enjoy life.

Quote:
So why not put it in another room if there isn't space in the office. For the amount of money at stake I'd be playing in the hallway if I had to.
Serious? I don't think you get it. This time my wife and I have to ourselves. We don't have kids around or anyone else. It's just she and me. And we don't just talk poker. We talk about the kids, about our day, about life in general. We laugh, joke, and overall just spend some good time together. We have come to really look forward to these times. We feel it has made us a stronger couple. And now you want us to put a second computer in the hallway? I guess that again comes down to priorities. That would not be enjoyable for us. Making the most money possible is not our highest priority.

Quote:
Why do you even need two monitors anyway, you play like 3K hands a week. That is an extremely low number for a multitabling poker pro.
Cause we don't want to play poker all the time. We'd rather play several tables and get some hands in so we can then have more time to do other stuff (like spend it with our kids, go outdoors, go on a vacation, etc.). Having two big monitors also helps us watch the other's play.

Quote:
What magical features does this computer of yours have that makes it so great? Powerful pcs are only needed for games, video/music/image intesive editing work. They are certainly not needed for playing online poker. All you have to do is buy a machine and get two monitors and you are good to go. Although I don't see why someone playing 3K hands a week would need two monitors anyway.
We're not computer gurus, so we couldn't really argue with you. We always felt we needed a pretty good computer system to prevent freeze ups and stuff like that during play.

Quote:
I just think it is completely ludicrous a husband and wife online poker playing team with 3 kids have one fricking pc in the house. My parents are 60 years old, grown up children have moved out, and are techno-phobic yet they have two laptops in their house. I have aunts and uncles whose kids are also grown up and have moved out, and who are even more completely useless when it comes to pcs, and yet they have two machines in the house.
I guess we just didn't see the need for having so many computers. We used to have an old clunker computer in the kids room, but that hasn't worked in years. When it broke down, it never seemed like much of a problem to have just one computer in the house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazbolton
have you spoken to the site on the phone yet? personally if it was me I would of called the office 100 times a day till I got hold of someone $100K is a lot of wedge chap. have you thought about maybe flying over to there offices?? its not as if they are a shady little company - I mean if what you are saying is true, anyone would of tried these options if it means getting your families money back.
We both tried calling, but without success. My wife called the Dublin number and I called the other. I talked about it in one of my earlier posts. See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I.M. Baked
lol i bet your wife is f- pissed. she's probably going on and on about how she knew this was a bad idea and how you have just listened to her. the ftp red pros have been guilty of the same thing so you probably wont lose your roll.
My wife is not like that. We are supportive of each other. We are just surprised our play would cause this much trouble. But, we'll change our play for the future. Namely, we'll play on different sites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Haven
I think the questions as to how it could be possible that they ever play on the same table, intentionally or not, are valid, when Andronicus said earlier that they only have one computer.
Hopefully this has now been cleared up. Let me know if it hasn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FastFwd
The fact that one computer makes so little sense makes this story look like being actually true. I have an impression that OP and his wife are good naive people. I would guess they try hard to comply with all rules not only in poker but in general in their lives and expect that it is sufficient to avoid being accused of wrongdoing.

What would you do if you wanted to multi-account without being caught?

Yes, this is exactly what you should do OP! Get the second computer. Get the second internet connection. Always make sure you adhere to one account - one computer - one internet connection rule. And last but not least - play together with your wife. It seems neither of you have to make those hard decisions too frequently, so the other one will be available to help most of the time anyway.

Good luck.
Thanks. We appreciate the support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donatordan
I liked the analogy of full till investigation being comparable to the witch hunts. Confess you are a witch and we will be lenient. Op and wife have to admit to doing something wrong with no option of professing their innocence. It is hard to prove you are innoncent or prove yourself innocent of charges if you don't know what those charges are.

It really dosen't sound like OP did anything wrong. Full TIlt should not allow 2 accounts for one house hold if it is such a problem. Full Tilt was aware of Op and wife having seperate accounts. Full Tilt is claiming that one player played exclusively on both accounts if im understanding correctly.

What botheres me the most with Full TIlts security is that they can make blanket accusations without any proof of wrong doing. Proof as in specific hands tournaments etc. I have seen this in numerous situations where players have had their accounts closed.

I hope op is reinstated and Full Tilt issues apology if it cannot provide proof that OP did something wrong.
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder
OP - please address this question that several people have raised now:

With one computer, why would this decision even be necessary? Why is it not a moot point that needs no further mention once you established you have only a single computer?
Because from time to time we would/could both qualify for tournaments. This included things like free rake race tournaments, iron man tournament, etc. We could also sign up for the same tournament.

Of course you are right we would have had to borrow someone's laptop again or go to our parents or something like that. Borrowing a laptop from time to time to both play in the same tournament would not have been that difficult. But, we just decided it would be better to not sign up/play in the same tournament ever at all.

There are also very limited occasions where one of us played a little another person's house (like our parents or a friend), but this happened maybe only once a year or so. Again, however, regardless of where we were, we never played on the same table.

Quote:
How would it be possible for you to do so, and how would this even be a consideration that needs mentioning? You realize that it is impossible to log in to two FT accounts simultaneously on one computer, right?
Without borrowing a laptop or getting another computer, you are right; it would be impossible to do at home. I'm not sure on this, but even if we had another computer, would the Full Tilt client have even let us play on the same table?

Quote:
Why did you not simply point out that it is impossible for you to play together since you only have one computer?
We could have borrowed a laptop if we ended up in the same tournament (for whatever reason). Or, one of us could have gone to our parents to play. I don't know--I guess it is a matter of semantics. Maybe we should have said that it was impossible to play together at home since we have only one computer, and the very few instances one of us played somewhere else, we did not play together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Folds cheques
Why would anyone give a graph of their own results a file name in 3rd person, as if painting a scene with actors, none of whom are himself?
We simply titled them as "husband graph" and "wife graph" to help avoid any confusion. I mean, people here already got confused about a statement I made when it was taken out of context (about playing on the same table). Frankly, we don't post images very often on here. So, we were struggling a little figuring it out. The names we gave the graphs were to simply avoid confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMickHead
My best bet is that this seemed very suspicious to the security staff. It does see like one person was logging in and out between the two accounts. Of course the way you describe your play sessions it makes perfect sense.

My feel is you're pretty much innocent. The worst thing I can come up with that you might be doing is sharing a database.
I have my database. My wife has hers.

Quote:
That's against the rules and all, but I can totally understand it given your situation. Heck I don't even know how you'd go about setting things up so you'd have separate databases. I'm sure there's a way. It's probably a pain though.
It's actually really easy. You just click on Database Management, click connect, then you can manage your databases. You can then switch between databases pretty easily. Just click the database you want to switch to, set as default, and click start.

Quote:
The only angle I can think of here is double iron man rewards. That seems like a pretty lame thing to go after given the risk. I mean maybe at best they could swing an extra $2,000 a year out of duplicate iron man bonuses. Not really worth it at their stakes IMO.
Any marginal reward we may have gotten from playing on the same site is not worth the risk of suspicion. From now on, we're going to play on different sites. If anyone has a spouse, brother, sister etc. that plays on the same site as you, we highly recommend one of you starts playing on another site instead. I promise, you don't want to go through what we have.

Quote:
The angle of hiding a bots activity doesn't seem to make much sense either. Using the same computer/ip address would seem like a dead giveaway. I don't think it would hide much from the security team. It might actually raise red flags quicker. Plus I'd think the point there would be to play nearly 24/7. Which it sounds like they're far from doing even with both accounts combined.
We are not using, and have not ever used bots.

Quote:
In the end I think Full Tilt will say there are a lot of warning signs but no proof of real wrong doing. The problem is sometimes they close accounts just because of enough warning signs. Good luck OP I think you deserve to have your accounts reinstated.
Thank you. We appreciate the support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldorian
The sollution should be quite simple, we only need some scales...

If OP's weight is less or equal then the weight of a duck he is a multiaccounting shortstacker ...simple as that
We would hope that investigations are better than those from the dark ages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazbolton
OP - personally I would be bashing the phones ringing them every 10 minutes - why haven't you? you were given contact numbers earlier in the thread!
We did. We both called. My wife called one number. I called the other. We did not have much success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Folds cheques
I'm a bit curious about the "From: ... Add contact" that these emails expose where a real person's name would be (or be XXXd out). Where does that come from? I'd expect to be seeing something like "From: xxxx@xxxx John Smith" instead.
That's just text that is automatically put in by our email provider. We have nothing to do with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spadebidder
Any small benefit from not exposing his screen name, is way overruled by the potential help he could get in proving his innocence.
I've already discussed why this would be bad for us, not the least of which is that all of sudden we have lots of people studying every inch of our game. I don't know if we'd ever be able to win at poker again. Also, my wife asked me not to release her screen name, and on that request alone, I won't. I listed a bunch of other reasons in an earlier post as well.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 03-18-2010 at 09:42 AM.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players’ accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andronicus
Again, see post #366.
I was tired when I read the quote and took it out of context like a few others did ><
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 10:47 PM
Been following along catching up tonight I see that you are on OP so I am gonna try to lend a helping hand.
Go to the first page of this thread to post 9 get it on your monitor. Have a kid take a picture of you and your wife with your hands over your faces where we can see the pose and the monitor with the image in post 9. high resolution picture, if you want to block your faces better then write "2+2" on 2 pieces of paper and cover your faces with that. It would even give more weight if you can have a kid in front of each of you again fine to cover faces and have the third kid take a picture. You should have no problem doing this in 15 minutes. If you can do that it will add a tremendous amount of weight to the doubters.

I could lean either way, being an analytical type I'm inclined to believe something is shady going on. Still isn't going to convince all but it will add <i>some</i> more credibility.

The hand history thing is what I'm waiting to be dug up.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andronicus
Vanessa Selbst and Annette Obrestad are names that I think people would recognize.
Yep, both of whom are married with 3 kids.

You might choose to cite Annie Duke instead. Who would have exactly zero chance of crushing 5/10 online.

So... nice try.

FWIW, I have met and corresponded with thousands of poker players in my years on this forum, playing live, and playing online. Many of those were women, and many of those were married men or in committed relationships. I have yet to hear even a HINT of a woman like the one you describe as your wife.

I was also married to a hot female computer programmer, who knew all five other hot female computer programmers in Silicon Valley. So I don't want to hear any crap about how I am sexist, or that I don't understand that women can thrive in a male-dominated field.

Sure, it's possible that OP's wife exists as described, and that together they have made truly baffling decisions with regards to IT resources, time management, and money management, despite being smart enough to crush 5/10 while raising 3 kids.

But it's also possible that OP is FOS. I guess everyone will have to decide for themselves which is more likely.

Last edited by pineapple888; 03-17-2010 at 10:55 PM.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 10:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andronicus
My wife and I have called this number and the Dublin number with no success. My wife called the Dublin number and got a directory message. She said the computer directory asked her to type in the name of the person you want to contact. She said she didn't know a name to type in, but she said she was able to leave a message. We'll see if anyone calls us back.
Enter the name of the supervisor who emailed you. They are probably in that office.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by morello
I've skimmed through the thread, and haven't seen it posted: Has OP offered up the screennames of he and his wife?

I would be super highly skeptical of someone that refuses to offer this information. If he is innocent, the 2p2 detectives can quickly verify this via PTR, databases, and personal experiences. An innocent person with 6 figures seized (and 3 hungry children..very hungry children, so hungry that a 100k bankroll can't buy two computers) would simply say, my screenname is X, my wife's screenname is Y, you guys check us out, we did nothing wrong.

Failure to provide this information would lead me to assign a near 99% probability of the OP being guilty. Sorry, if you want the 2p2 community to work on your behalf to get your funds unfrozen, you need to give us the relevant details. You lose your right to anonymity when you attempt to try your case in the court of public opinion.
Yeah...Im surprised more people don't see it this way.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 11:11 PM
Somewhere the real cheaters of online poker are LTAO at this thread. I wish the sites would just get a clue and go after the real culprits instead of the average Joes and Janes who fit their FU'd profiles some moron made up to snatch a certain number each week to fill their quotas and justify their salary. It's all BS. Everyone here knows how hundreds and hundreds, thousands and thousands of people are cheating every day and yet nobody talks about that, they talk about this guy who plays on the same computer as his wife instead.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergistic Explosions
Somewhere the real cheaters of online poker are LTAO at this thread. I wish the sites would just get a clue and go after the real culprits instead of the average Joes and Janes who fit their FU'd profiles some moron made up to snatch a certain number each week to fill their quotas and justify their salary. It's all BS. Everyone here knows how hundreds and hundreds, thousands and thousands of people are cheating every day and yet nobody talks about that, they talk about this guy who plays on the same computer as his wife instead.
[ ] has read this thread
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-17-2010 , 11:31 PM
If you have nothing to hide and actually are telling the truth, reveal your screen names. If you are unwilling to do this, you cannot expect to be taken seriously just because you took out a lot of time to fabricate a story.

Put up or shut up
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-18-2010 , 12:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andronicus
We would hope that investigations are better than those from the dark ages.
In your correspondence you have freely and openly admitted to multiple violations of the terms and conditions.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-18-2010 , 12:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngerPush
This really doesn't bother me. I think he just had to rename his saved files so it would be clearer when posting. Typing "husband graph" and "wife graph" seems like his attempt to show us which one is which. I realize that putting "my graph" and "wife graph" may have been just as easy/meaningful but this could just be the way he thought it was easiest. Definitely not a smoking gun imo.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillerdls
Some motives have been thrown out there...such as double dipping on iron man rewards, bonuses, etc. There may also be tax implications when your wife's income is separated (I have no clue on the specifics of this, but someone mentioned it).
Any small reward we would've gained by Iron Man, etc. would not be worth it. We file a joint tax return, so there is no benefit there. We both played on Full Tilt because we liked the site a little better. We had no idea it would cause us all this trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EfromPegTown
I don't get why everyone keeps asking for both user names?

Isn't that only going to show what he's already stated, that they would log in right after one another and that they have not played together before (other then some freeroll).

Where's the upside to him posting his username. Also, he is not his wife and he already stated she did not want him to post her user name.


Also, he already alluded to the fact that the last time he released his username to someone on 2+2(FTPSean) it didn't go so great for him (e.g. this whole thread).

Am I missing something? How does posting his name help him in any way?
Thanks. That's pretty much how we feel. Even when we posted some graphs, we started getting attacked every which way. Probably the worst are the suggestions that my wife couldn't be a good mother and play that many hands of poker. We find that so insulting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AUGUY55
I grew up with two sisters. One older and one younger. My mother was a stay-at-home mom. I remember growing up she barely got any time to relax because she was always taking care of us, whether it be helping us with school, taking us to sports practices, rehearsals, and making us dinner, etc. When we were at school, she would clean the house and prepare for us to get off from school.

If I grew up in this decade, I just can't imagine my mother doing anything else but the same thing she did in the 80s when I grew up. In other words, I just cannot see her putting any time aside to do something (like play online poker for example) to make and supplement an income because she just didn't have the time.

Thats why she stayed home and my father went to work. Taking care of kids is a FULL TIME JOB in itself.

I suppose it's possible for two parents to raise 3 kids and both play online poker for a living but goddamn, they must not ever get any sleep.
Yes, taking care of kids is a full time job. That is why we share the responsibility of it equally. And no, we don't play 40 hours of poker a week. We play far less than that. It's baffling to us that so many people seem unable to comprehend that a father can be just as nurturing (or sometimes even more so) than the mother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dieuluimeme
If the stake is a six figure amount, shouldn't you consider legal action against Full tilt?

It is not the first time that I have heard that FTP is acting as if it is both the accusator and the judge, and by doing so is clearly leaving very little chance to the person to defend him/herself.

Personally I wouldn't hesitate to drag FTP in front of a court if they were to act in this kind of arbitrary way with me (even for 100 $).

Having said that, this would however be possible if everything is clear on your side.

I do hope that you find a rapid issue to this and hope the best for you and your family.
Thanks for your support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frazier
The two of you seem to discuss poker quite a bit, does your wife post on any poker forums?
My wife feels that most of the posters on Two Plus Two are sexist teenage boys or mid 20-year old men. She doesn't feel she can relate to very many of the posters here. She has browsed the forums a little bit, but she doesn't really like what she has seen. She has especially not liked the stuff in BBV4Life.

After reading some of the responses in this thread, I have to agree with her that a lot of people on here are sexist. Just think about how many people on here have already said (or implied) that she could not be a good mother and play poker at the same time.

Last edited by Mike Haven; 03-18-2010 at 09:46 AM.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-18-2010 , 12:10 AM
Since we still don't have an update from FTP, is this one giant level and an advertisement for Stars?
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-18-2010 , 12:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andronicus
Without borrowing a laptop or getting another computer, you are right; it would be impossible to do at home. I'm not sure on this, but even if we had another computer, would the Full Tilt client have even let us play on the same table?
Not in cash or SnG, but in MTTs, yes it is allowed from the same IP/connection.

Thanks for the answers. I think you have been honest.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-18-2010 , 12:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andronicus
Thanks. That's pretty much how we feel. Even when we posted some graphs, we started getting attacked every which way. Probably the worst are the suggestions that my wife couldn't be a good mother and play that many hands of poker. We find that so insulting.
Multi-accounting creates unfair advantages over your opponents which violates the integrity of the game.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-18-2010 , 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andronicus
Yes, taking care of kids is a full time job. That is why we share the responsibility of it equally. And no, we don't play 40 hours of poker a week. We play far less than that. It's baffling to us that so many people seem unable to comprehend that a father can be just as nurturing (or sometimes even more so) than the mother.
Many people consider the winrate "your wife," is achieving to require quite a lot more time than the 1 hour a day she spends playing. I am not implying that you don't have a wife...simply that she may, or may not be the one actually playing under "her," account.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-18-2010 , 12:32 AM
Some people ITT are to harsh on OP and need to wait till FTP comes to a decision in a few days. I don't believe OP was Multi-accounting or colluding (just my gut feeling) and I hope FTP get to the bottom of it soon.

I don't like people who Multi-account and I wish the sites would perma-ban those who do instead of slap them on the wrist as they do now, but the sites needs real concrete proof before taking such a measure. Some high stakes players have or may still be Multi-accounting and sites should do more to stop it (at all levels). I just feel/hope op is innocent and it works out for him and his family.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote
03-18-2010 , 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by novahunterpa
Some people ITT are to harsh on OP and need to wait till FTP comes to a decision in a few days. I don't believe OP was Multi-accounting or colluding (just my gut feeling) and I hope FTP get to the bottom of it soon.

I don't like people who Multi-account and I wish the sites would perma-ban those who do instead of slap them on the wrist as they do now, but the sites needs real concrete proof before taking such a measure. Some high stakes players have or may still be Multi-accounting and sites should do more to stop it (at all levels). I just feel/hope op is innocent and it works out for him and his family.
I'm just glad Full Tilt doesn't use this as the measure with which to determine guilt or innocence...given that they would have left a lot of cheaters in their games if every thread that had people believing in them was all they needed.
Full Tilt wrongfully suspends long-time players&#8217; accounts (inquisition in progress) - from 2010 Quote

      
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