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FTP Black Card Thread FTP Black Card Thread

10-01-2010 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by josephthepimp
People have forgotten in all their calculations that you get more base points. Meaning you would have gotten more IM+ medals. Also IM doesn't have a rb hit. Spending points does. So really how much more are we getting? 3%? When this has been in development for 2 years? Also EVERYONE was under the impression that we would be getting something in addition to IM. Especially with all the hype around it.
I agree...it is not much, my point was it is more, not necessarily much more...good point with the MGR hit.
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10-01-2010 , 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldorian
I agree...it is not much, my point was it is more, not necessarily much more...good point with the MGR hit.
Not true. When you clear your IMM bonus you do take an MGR hit.

Also, getting more medals because you have more base FTPs doesn't matter. You still have to make an extra 1000 FTPs to get the extra 10 medals and the 2X FTPs generated is worth more than 1X FTPs and medals.

Forget about IM+, 2X FTPs are way better.
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10-01-2010 , 01:42 PM
The worst thing is, you are'nt getting any extra value by saving for the bonuses...you get more cash value by using them to play in tournaments.

$216 for the 750K is for 45,000 points.
That's $5,280 worth of tournaments for 1.1 million points.

So I lose $280 worth of value by saving up for that long....

Only thing it is actually worth is double the Full Tilt points because the bonuses aren't that good.

I'm most interested to see in what actually happens with the rakeback I already have....

Now, if you can buy some WSOP buy ins or something with the points, Id be more interested.....
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10-01-2010 , 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mce86
The worst thing is, you are'nt getting any extra value by saving for the bonuses...you get more cash value by using them to play in tournaments.

$216 for the 750K is for 45,000 points.
That's $5,280 worth of tournaments for 1.1 million points.

So I lose $280 worth of value by saving up for that long....
Tournaments take time to play, time that could be spent playing your regular game, especially for cash game players. Also they are high variance. I would be willing to sacrifice the $280 to save the time and effort of playing 24 tournaments, and to secure a sure $5000 instead of a highly variable return from the tournament events.
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10-01-2010 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKongGrinder
Not true. When you clear your IMM bonus you do take an MGR hit.

Also, getting more medals because you have more base FTPs doesn't matter. You still have to make an extra 1000 FTPs to get the extra 10 medals and the 2X FTPs generated is worth more than 1X FTPs and medals.

Forget about IM+, 2X FTPs are way better.
Fair enough but everyone is using calculations to get max value. The bonus was not max value. 75$ token was pretty good value no rb hit.
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10-01-2010 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skraper
Using the custom stat posted ITT, I worked up some numbers. It's not an official stat from HEM so it's possible that the formula is flawed.

But. if its correct, this is how my rakeback will be affected.

I used a 300,000 hand sample from 50nl and 100nl 6max roughly 21/17 (300k total, not each).

Rake (old method) : $19,884.99
Rake (new method) : $15,983.53
Difference : -$3,901.46 (-19.62%)

Rakeback (old method) : $5,368.95
Rakeback (new method) : $4,315.55
Difference : -$1,053.4 (-19.62%)

Until I have some more accurate numbers on how many FTPs/hand Black Card members will earn, there is no way to tell if I can make up for this with the new bonus system.

$2,000 Bonus - 460,000 FTPs

So each FTP is worth appx $0.0043 or 230 FTP per $1 bonus before MGR hit.
After the MGR hit the bonus is actually only worth $1352 - $0.0029/FTP or 340FTP/$1.
Meaning that over my 300,000 hands I need to earn 358,406 FTPs to achieve the same rakeback as before.

edit: after some rough calculations (not entirely sure how accurate they are) I come up with appx 0.52FTP/hand which is nowhere near enough. But my numbers could be off bc I'm not sure if I did the math correctly or if I took into account the method for calculated FTPS and the black card bonus.

Jesus...and that's playing 21/17
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10-01-2010 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimM
Tournaments take time to play, time that could be spent playing your regular game, especially for cash game players. Also they are high variance. I would be willing to sacrifice the $280 to save the time and effort of playing 24 tournaments, and to secure a sure $5000 instead of a highly variable return from the tournament events.


IDK...24 750K attempts could = alot more than 5k!!! I think most cash guys donk off money at tourneys anyway.....plus, I dont know that I can clear the 5K in 90 days...it would have to be during certain months when I am playin higher volume (summer)

But for the tourney and SNG guys who are now getting more points, using the points to play tourneys is a no brainer!
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10-01-2010 , 02:05 PM
They really need to add another Tier to this program , or all those Million pt Items will never be attained.
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10-01-2010 , 02:07 PM
you have 180 days to clear 5 k bonus , not 90
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10-01-2010 , 02:11 PM
(Cross-post from other thread)

Cliff notes of changes for FR players who were >~800 FTP pts/day:
If you have rakeback and your weighted contributed MGR is >8% lower than dealt MGR, you will end up with a lower effective rakeback overall.


These calcs take into account the $ value of lost IronManPlus + the new BC point value / bonus.

Overall (for players who earned ~800 FTP points/day FR), new BC FTP scheme results in 2.2% rakeback increase (from 3.6%->5.8%)
Had FullTilt left the IronManPlus incentive in place, with FTP points being easier to there would have been a more generous increase of 3.7% (from 3.6%->7.3%)

Note that these increases do NOT include or account for any potential loss (or gain) from switching the rakeback method from dealt -> weighted contributed. So if you lose >2.2% from weighted cont method (8% of 27%), you end up with less $s overall, otherwise you end up with more.



Original (pre BC) New BC New BC with IronManPlus

Rake Paid $100.00 $100.00 $100.00
FTPs (FR) 900 2,000 2,000
FTPs $ Value $2.30 $5.84 $5.84
IronMan Medals 9 0 10
IM Medal $ Value $1.31 $0.00 $1.46

Total $ Value $3.61 $5.84 $7.30
Rakeback % 3.6% 5.8% 7.3%

Assumptions:
1) Pre-MGR value of 3.5c/FTP point in original pre-BC system
2) 4c/FTP point bonus - $500 for 125k in new BC scheme
3) Daily MGR = $100 -> avg of 9 medals previously, now 10 medals with BC, $600 bonus purchased with IM medals
4) 27% rakeback account
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10-01-2010 , 02:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATMo
you have 180 days to clear 5 k bonus , not 90
Great! So every 18 months (assuming with the double points I earn about 2 FTP per hand played) I can get a bonus....

Hmmm...well, time to grind in October and see how it pans out! I just wish they would offer something that has better value for the points if you have to save up that many...

Where is my own personal avatar??
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10-01-2010 , 02:12 PM
I just sent in this email. I apologize for how poorly typed out it is. Would you guys agree with this?

I really like the idea of this new plan. I have noticed that a ton of your items in the store are way over 1million points. It is going to be nearly impossible for 99% of your blackcard holders to achieve one of these items in a calender year.

Is their any discussion about adding tiers to the program?

Say like, players who earn a 1k a day rolling avg get 2.5x ftps

3k rolling avg 3x ftps

and the big one would be 5k rolling avg 5x ftps


I believe this would work because it would reward the higher volume grinders and give the less volume players more incentive to step up their volume.
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10-01-2010 , 02:19 PM
Now that Im thinking about it..the one big thing were missing is for Black Card holders, we are getting double the points, and we do have an opportunity to get cash bonuses instead of just tournaments. It's as if everything in the store just became half off for us! So, I guess that part is good...as long as the RB hit isn't bad it is a good thing.

Im still gonna free-roll tourneys with my points!
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10-01-2010 , 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTPemail(Oct/01)
Ring Games: For each dollar raked from the pot in a real-money ring game, 10 Full Tilt Points will be awarded to the table and then split equally between all players dealt into the hand. For example:

* In a full-ring game, if nine players are dealt into a hand and a total of $1.80 is raked from the pot, 18 Full Tilt Points are awarded to the table. The 18 points are then split equally and all nine players receive two Full Tilt Points for that hand.
* In a 6-Max game, if six players are dealt into a hand and a total of $1.80 is raked from the pot, 18 Full Tilt Points are awarded to the table and each player receives three points for that hand.
* In a heads-up game, if two players are dealt into a hand and a total of $0.40 is raked from the pot, four Full Tilt Points are awarded to the table and each player receives two points for that hand.
Am I reading this wrong? Weren't they supposto get away from this "split equally between all players dealt into the hand"... so all they did was increase the number of points per $1 of rake?
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10-01-2010 , 02:28 PM
FTPs are still calculated using the dealt method, but now there are more FTPs per $1 of rake.

MGR is now calculated using the weighted contributed method.
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10-01-2010 , 02:30 PM
i'm getting 10,000 points per 6000 hands @ .50/1 nl playing a 21/18 style.
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10-01-2010 , 02:33 PM
Correct me if Im wrong but I cannot see any benefit using the points to buy bonuses, if you already have rakeback and you get an MGR hit when u use the points.


I cannot understand the cash game maths so I calculated for tournaments, for example:

As they say, you earn 2x points so:

To buy the $5000 bonus (1100000 points) u need: 1100000 p : 20p/$raked = $55000

Without BC: rakeback = 55000x0,27 = 14850$

With BC: rakeback = 55000 x 0,27 + 5000 - 1100000 x 0,005 = $14350 LESS RB!!


Plz tell me if Im wrong w my thinking.
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10-01-2010 , 02:35 PM
$5000 - $1450 = $3550 is the value of the 5k bonus, FTP points remove $13.5 from rakeback per 10,000 points. You mathed up.

edit - Maybe I should add $14850 + $3550 = $18400

Last edited by Malefiicus; 10-01-2010 at 02:41 PM.
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10-01-2010 , 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by skraper
FTPs are still calculated using the dealt method, but now there are more FTPs per $1 of rake.

MGR is now calculated using the weighted contributed method.
Right, people are overlooking this. I'm a 6max player, 1 point last week= 3.33 pts this week.

Last week= $1/raked=$1/point

Now= $1/raked= 10 points/6players= 1.67 points*2x pts= 3.33 pts.
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10-01-2010 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mce86
The worst thing is, you are'nt getting any extra value by saving for the bonuses...you get more cash value by using them to play in tournaments.

$216 for the 750K is for 45,000 points.
That's $5,280 worth of tournaments for 1.1 million points.

So I lose $280 worth of value by saving up for that long....

Only thing it is actually worth is double the Full Tilt points because the bonuses aren't that good.

I'm most interested to see in what actually happens with the rakeback I already have....

Now, if you can buy some WSOP buy ins or something with the points, Id be more interested.....
they really need to do this. it would go so well w/ the purpose of the physical card itself.
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10-01-2010 , 02:44 PM
I like this idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by J2BDifferent

I really like the new Black Card Program, but I have some suggestions. I have noticed that most items in the store cost over 1million points. It is going to be nearly impossible for 99% of your blackcard holders to achieve one of these items in a calender year.

I suggest adding tiers to the program.

For example, players who earn a 1k a day rolling avg get 2.5x ftps

3k rolling avg get 3x ftps

And the big one would be 5k rolling avg get 5x ftps

I believe this would work because it would reward the current highest-volume players as well as incentivize all Black Card players to increase their volume in order to reach the next tier.

I look forward to your reply,

XXX
fyp for email format
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10-01-2010 , 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malefiicus
$5000 - $1450 = $3550 is the value of the 5k bonus, FTP points remove $13.5 from rakeback per 10,000 points. You mathed up.

edit - Maybe I should add $14850 + $3550 = $18400
Why is that? My rakebackpros page states it clearly:

"Used Points: Every time you use Full Tilt points in the store or for tournaments you are deducted $0.005 per point"


Has that changed?
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10-01-2010 , 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blah-blah-blah
they really need to do this. it would go so well w/ the purpose of the physical card itself.
Exactly, and it would be more advertising too! With the Black Card, give us a buy in, a decent package, and I still need to wear my FTP gear in the $1500 buy in WSOP tourneys..Id be in in a second!

So for 400,000 points I get a $2000 dollar package to Vegas and an entry in the $1500 event...now its worth my time and Im happy, even if it is even money!
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10-01-2010 , 02:50 PM
0.005 is removed from your MGR, 27% of that is removed from your rakeback
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10-01-2010 , 03:02 PM
this is basically a saleman being told:

Next month we are giving you a raise!
You wait the month and look at you pay check you got 10$ more/week!
WOW! you are excited then you go collect your commissions, and they tell you that you no longer earn commission. FML
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