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05-27-2012 , 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroBob
Lol, how high was tokeweed when he made those posts?
either that or actually a pretty good gimmick.
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05-27-2012 , 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokeweed
My advice. Accept who you are and be happy with what you have.

Reading your post I think you are maybe in your late 30's early 40's living a mediocre life. You have a wife who works in an office and just makes enough, you have maybe 1 maybe 2 kids. All your life you were just average but, like the rest of us, you have big dreams. You have read books on how to be successful even tried to 'apply' yourself in different endeavors hoping to make it big but to no avail.

And to continue... You are unhappy, bored all your life and you're trying to find fullfilment but cant find none. You try to impress people but you know for a fact they cant be impressed by you. You like to think of yourself as a savant but deep down inside you know you're no good.

Again, be happy with what you have and accept who you are. Stop being self delusional and maybe, just maybe, things will start coming your way.

I guess someone here thinks they are high and mighty. Either that or they have taken way too many drugs in their life. Or maybe you wanted to be a psychologist or psychiatrist but just could not make it.
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05-27-2012 , 04:29 PM
is your business an online run site, if so link please
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05-27-2012 , 04:59 PM
this thread = 15 min of my life I'll never get back

thanks
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05-27-2012 , 09:50 PM
What the others said, figure out what you want to do before anything else.

And don't make a bot. This will make you a cheating, stealing scumbag. And that most certainly will only drag your life further downhill.
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05-27-2012 , 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmurjeff
I guess someone here thinks they are high and mighty. Either that or they have taken way too many drugs in their life. Or maybe you wanted to be a psychologist or psychiatrist but just could not make it.
+1
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05-27-2012 , 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOANGTAO
is your business an online run site, if so link please
OP sells sex dolls online.
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05-28-2012 , 04:13 AM
Methinks everyone misses OP not back, but makes stimulating speculative post about botting, while getting everyone to focus on his psychology (as in not serious).
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05-28-2012 , 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalme
So I'm living in the USA and since mid 2009 I finally figured it out and started making money at online poker enough to live off of and I was not made rich but I got by. This was until of course BF hit, since then I have been doing typical stuff that a fish would do. Tried to play live and sucked (had no bankroll so I don't know 100% that I will always fail). Tried to work some jobs but I have never been a good worker, and for some reason I find it difficult to actually do the things needed to be a "good employee" like showing up on time and all the rest of it. Now I have started a business, things are slightly better, but now I see the end of the poker coming. As more and better bots are made, and more and more people either can't deposit due to the economy or the complete lack of trust and interest in the poker sites (especially the ones that are left), I can see that if I ever want to have made my goals, now is the time to act.
Pretty hard to run your own business and/or make money in the long run at poker without a strong work ethic.

Are you healthy? If so, count yourself very lucky that you still control your own destiny - endless things are possible. (Very difficult to understand this if you've never had major health problems but still!)
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05-28-2012 , 01:59 PM
LMAO HE MADE A SPREADSHEET
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05-28-2012 , 02:09 PM
through all the sarcasm i sense a good amount of true and helpful advice, op should read this thread with a grain, it could help, maybe respond, for another round of berating until he becomes furious and does something to change
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05-28-2012 , 04:26 PM
Yesterday after I read the reply[s], I needed some time to think about what was written. I actually didn't intend to write most of what I had, simply put prior to starting to write the post I had not sat and thought about it long enough to know how angry I am at the current situation. My bankroll was on a steady increase prior to Black Friday and things were really looking up, I had plans and knew where I wanted to go with poker and really thought I could get there. For months after Black Friday I was still hopeful and optimistic, especially when I got my stars money (I have decided some time ago that I will never get my FTP money back), but things have taken a turn for the worst, with the additional expense of playing live poker and still needing to make house a house payment, it only took one minor downswing to have me scrambling to look for work.

That was around September, and from then till March things were ok, as I was able to find the jobs I was talking about, but little did I realize that it only would take 1 or 2 things going wrong and needing to be fixed or taken care of to nearly wipe me out.

It is frustrating not really knowing how to fill out a resume, or what should go on it. Prior to poker I have run my own businesses and I have only worked for one business prior to that with a partner, and that was a completely botched deal as a 3rd partner moved in and caused more drama then it was worth dealing with as he tried to squander all of the money and take a controlling interest in that business, since I didn't like the work and was starting to make money at poker I just walked away.

I have written a reply to each post. I have found that many of my replies can be summed up into one post so for now I am going to re-write everything as my current reply it seems would fill an entire page and repeat much of the same information.

I will return in approx 5hrs after work, and the rewrite. But first let me say thank you to all the replies I have received, I really did not intend for this to become so personal, but we are here now and I think it might be helpful to clear some things up.
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05-28-2012 , 04:49 PM
Again I am going to express that a poker forum isn't the ideal place to air one's grievance regarding their personal life but since you wanted some advice, I have to again stress that whatever financial issues you may have, poker is certainly not an 'out' for you. It will not solve your financial issues because a) you do not sound like someone who's at the level to make a decent earner out of it, and b) the industry is too unstable for the majority of players to make it a stable source of income, esp not for someone with your social status and responsibilities as a family man.

Your best bet is just get any job even if you don't like it because in your situation you have responsibilities to other ppl and you def need something stable in your life.

Most of the ppl who have responded to you have either made inappropriate remarks that waste everyone's time and do not benefit you in the slightest or they give advice that contains passive-aggressive undertones.

It's obvious that your thread has become a form of 'cheap entertainment' to most of the posters here who couldn't really give a monkeys about you. So unless you want more advice from them, I'd seriously suggest to seek advice elsewhere more appropriate; perhaps professional advice.
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05-28-2012 , 06:07 PM
Wait, we aren't suppose to be Dr. Phil?
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05-28-2012 , 08:54 PM
I guess we can start with some basics, first we need to clear up some misconceptions brought on by tokeweed, I am not married, and do not have any kids! I am in my mid to late twenties, I can say for the most part you are correct in that I am pretty damn lucky I have gone almost 9 years since high school and been able to nearly completely avoid the normal "differed living" plan for life [work hard at a job you hate, retire too late to do the things you want, die]. I have had my ups and believe it or not worse financial downs in my poker life then what I am currently going through. I also should count myself lucky in that I own the things I do because I will (assuming I catch up my late bills), have paid off my house in August of this year, making house payment after house payment from my hard work at poker was the most satisfying thing I have done in the past few years.

Next as for what I really want to do: travel much more than the normal person, not be stuck at some job I hate barely making enough to get by, and play poker at the highest stakes. For some example life goals I have wanted to get married to someone I really love, have kids, a house, nice car, etc. For whatever reason getting a "normal" job scares the hell out of me, to me it is like dying. When it comes to my business[es] I have always liked the process of starting and building them up, not the day to day drudgery of running them.

Leading me to my next point: tokeweed you are handing out a bad pill my friend. We get one chance to live, and I honestly believe "accepting" what one has or ones station in life is equivalent to giving up, it is the exact same as hearing "life is hard [or sucks] then you die", I think that is the weak and cowardly way to handle adversity, rather than moving forward and making things the way you want them to be, accepting them as they are is simply a waste of life; in my young and very inexperience opinion. I add that last part because it has always been older and experienced people that I have heard things like that I have mentioned, and things like "grow up", "grow some balls", etc. You guys may really know something I don't but I honestly think that it is why the world moves forward we refuse to accept such statements that enforce the status quo, and potentially kill kindred spirits. I hate to pick on you like this, but at least you know my view on the subject. If I ask for advise it is specifically because I do not want to accept _____.

To cover the transition to live poker and questions about my online roll; it's very simple the added expense of live poker (getting there, being there, etc) and the need to keep paying my bills meant that it was only a 4.5BI downswing before I had to say "I can't keep doing this," and I was simply out of the game. I have not since Black Friday deposited more than $100 on the sites we can play on for the fear that any money deposited would go the way of my FTP money.

For those that are so concerned with something so unimportant as the statement, "I made a spreadsheet." I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are in fact ignorant of the true capabilities of excel please take an opportunity to learn something new and look here andhere to find out more. Simply put my spreadsheet took less than 1hr to make and will be infinitely usable in the future to calculate the EV of any job. I only need to enter a starting address, the name and city of the place to wokr (or exact address if needed), hourly pay, MPG of my car[truck], and benefits if they exist. From there drive time, miles, gas prices along route, take home pay, expected tax return, and several representative "actual" hourly rates are calculated. I am most proud of the fact that it accurately calculates take home pay because most companies spend hundreds of dollars on software to do this for them, and most payroll personal can not even give accurate figures when you ask. So yeah I did make a spreadsheet, and you better believe there is a lot more impressive and interesting stuff that I can do, and have done with excel, which brings me to the point of boting.

A couple of years ago I made a very hobbled together program that uses HEM, excel (with custom addins, and close to 1000 lines of VB code), AHK, and a little bit of python to evaluate hands and accurately project the range of the villain and calculate exact (as I could assuming it was even right) as possible equities for each action. I ran into several problems, first it was slower than hell the average hand would take over 1 minute to calculate for each action, add more players or simply add players that have a very high VPIP and/or PFR (widen their range) and things would take longer. The original intent was to make this to better understand how stats related to each other, at some point I realized it could be used for accurately determining ranges and that is what it became. I could never use it in live play, the whole thing was just too slow, and eventually I got board with the whole thing and forgot about it. But recently I have read much about bots, how they are killing the games, stopping the flow of money, and in general just cheating. It makes me feel cheated, it makes me hate the fact that I signed up to poker after the UIGEA, and most of all it makes me want to make my own bot. It's pretty simple I am a weak human, I can only stay awake, stay focused, and think clearly for a finite amount of time, however a bot can just keep going and going, they are likely the ******* players that are playing 150k hands a month at 4NL losing a little but surely making money in rakeback. I really feel like I could have made a bot, and if I was going to make a bot now is a better time to do it because poker looks so dead.

Right now I am sitting here realizing that almost all of the jobs that it seems I can get will leave me at ground zero when and if poker comes back to the USA, I will be starting all over from depositing some menial amount each week till I can grind up some kind of a roll and move up and/or put in enough hours to again not have to work. Which is another reason I hate bots many of them hang out at the lower micro stakes and as more of them show up it will be harder and harder to beat the high rake. It just pisses me off to know that I have to start all over because some politician has their head up their ass. It is more than frustrating to realize I have been told a lie all my life saying we are a free country, most of the things I like to do are illegal, in a supposedly free country. I am really considering selling everything and moving to Canada or some other country. Because I really do look at it like I can do that, and when things change in 5 years or the US changes their laws, or whatever unexpected change happens I can come back to the US or stay where I am and get a job, goto school, and focus on other means to make a living.

Last edited by metalme; 05-28-2012 at 09:04 PM.
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05-28-2012 , 09:52 PM
Lol spreadsheet
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05-28-2012 , 10:37 PM
Quote:
t's very simple the added expense of live poker (getting there, being there, etc) and the need to keep paying my bills meant that it was only a 4.5BI downswing before I had to say "I can't keep doing this," and I was simply out of the game.

Ummm, Bankroll management. If a 4.5BI hurt/bothered you that much then just be done with it forever. Seriously. Get on with your life.
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05-28-2012 , 10:38 PM
Quote:
It is frustrating not really knowing how to fill out a resume, or what should go on it.

Google.
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05-28-2012 , 11:01 PM
Seriously dude, if you haven't realised this by now - no-one is going to give you any sympathy. Leave it.
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05-28-2012 , 11:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalme

Next as for what I really want to do: travel much more than the normal person, not be stuck at some job I hate barely making enough to get by, and play poker at the highest stakes. For some example life goals I have wanted to get married to someone I really love, have kids, a house, nice car, etc. For whatever reason getting a "normal" job scares the hell out of me, to me it is like dying. When it comes to my business[es] I have always liked the process of starting and building them up, not the day to day drudgery of running them.



Right now I am sitting here realizing that almost all of the jobs that it seems I can get will leave me at ground zero when and if poker comes back to the USA, I will be starting all over from depositing some menial amount each week till I can grind up some kind of a roll and move up and/or put in enough hours to again not have to work. Which is another reason I hate bots many of them hang out at the lower micro stakes and as more of them show up it will be harder and harder to beat the high rake. It just pisses me off to know that I have to start all over because some politician has their head up their ass. It is more than frustrating to realize I have been told a lie all my life saying we are a free country, most of the things I like to do are illegal, in a supposedly free country. I am really considering selling everything and moving to Canada or some other country. Because I really do look at it like I can do that, and when things change in 5 years or the US changes their laws, or whatever unexpected change happens I can come back to the US or stay where I am and get a job, goto school, and focus on other means to make a living.
Sell everything that doesn't directly help you in your goals. Resume playing on a site like Black Chip and get back in habit of grinding. And as soon as possible thereafter, move. I recommend Brazil, Czech Rep, Hungary, Costa Rica, or even Estonia. Different reasons for each recommendation, but they're all great in one or many ways. Philippines and Thailand should have been in that list. Get a poker coach. Work on your game and start building the life you want rather than complaining about the life you have. I live much of the life you say you want to live; this even though there was a time when I was sleeping in a friend's truck on the street nights and another time, more recently, where I had to really grind out some tough times (and deal with people saying, "I told you you couldn't make it as a poker player') but I didn't give up nor look to others for advice, I just made a plan and took it step by step. I now earn a living at poker and live in a country I love living in. You can talk about it or do it. I suggest the latter.
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05-29-2012 , 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroBob
Ummm, Bankroll management. If a 4.5BI hurt/bothered you that much then just be done with it forever. Seriously. Get on with your life.
That is not exactly fair to say. I did practice good bankroll management, in all practicality I took a shot at a higher stakes than is standard for me and failed and it turns out moving down in stakes in life means getting a job.


Edit***
I would like to add that I left more than enough to play my bills for over 6 months, I made a major error in figuring out how much I would be able to make working, and did not account for lost income since I was not playing poker any more. If anything this should serve as warning for younger players to make sure they leave as many options open as possible.

Edit 2****
I would like to point out it has been over 9months since I pretty much stopped playing just to make sure that it is clear I think I had damn good bankroll management.

Last edited by metalme; 05-29-2012 at 12:23 AM.
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05-29-2012 , 12:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalme
That is not exactly fair to say. I did practice good bankroll management, in all practicality I took a shot at a higher stakes than is standard for me and failed and it turns out moving down in stakes in life means getting a job.


Edit***
I would like to add that I left more than enough to play my bills for over 6 months, I made a major error in figuring out how much I would be able to make working, and did not account for lost income since I was not playing poker any more. If anything this should serve as warning for younger players to make sure they leave as many options open as possible.

Edit 2****
I would like to point out it has been over 9months since I pretty much stopped playing just to make sure that it is clear I think I had damn good bankroll management.
You said you had house payments, right? What are you doing buying a house when you only have 6 months worth of living expenses? If my income stopped completely tomorrow, I would also have around 6 months of living expenses and I don't consider myself well off by any means.

And even after reading everyone's posts you are still considering using a bot? You are now confirmed scum in my book. This thread should be titled, "I'm thinking about robbing all of you."

GTFO, you'll find zero sympathy here.
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05-29-2012 , 01:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalme
recently I have read much about bots, how they are killing the games, stopping the flow of money, and in general just cheating. It makes me feel cheated, it makes me hate the fact that I signed up to poker after the UIGEA, and most of all it makes me want to make my own bot. It's pretty simple I am a weak human, I can only stay awake, stay focused, and like I could have made a bot, and if I was going to make a bot now is a better think clearly for a finite amount of time, however a bot can just keep going and going, they are likely the ******* players that are playing 150k hands a month at 4NL losing a little but surely making money in rakeback. I really feel time to do it because poker looks so dead.
I'm sorry dude, I have tried to remain fair and impartial up to this point and have even given you some solid advice, but this comment really struck a nerve with me.

You say you felt cheated because of how bots are ruining games yet you contradict that statement by wanting to create one of your own, essentially trying to cheat the rest of us?!! You justify it by saying that no human can stay focused for long periods but isn't that the reason other ppl made bots in the first place? You come here airing your problems expecting a response/advice/sympathy from us; then you follow it up by pretty much saying that you cannot beat the game with your own skills so you decide it's the best time to create a bot to cheat the rest of us - absolutely absurd! You're just adding to the problem! Why don't you study and learn to improve like the rest of us?? Or if you cannot make a decent earner using your own skills why don't you just get a better paid job?

Last edited by BattleGrind; 05-29-2012 at 01:27 AM.
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05-29-2012 , 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalme
I did practice good bankroll management, in all practicality I took a shot at a higher stakes than is standard for me and failed and it turns out moving down in stakes in life means getting a job.
Well, no, you didn't practice good bankroll management. If you took a shot that resulted in you going broke and having to get a job then you made a -EV play by taking a risk so large that failure decimated your bankroll. A winning player would have never taken the shot, and if he had he would have immediately moved down as many levels as it took to get his risk of ruin back to acceptable levels at the first sign of trouble. You didn't. You gambled, and allowed excessive financial randomness into your life for a chance at bigger money. That makes you a losing player at that stake by default because no matter your edge your bankroll wasn't enough to cover the unavoidable swings.

If you couldn't do something as simple as showing up on time for someone else, you won't make it on your own because you don't get it. When you own a business, you are an employee, a salesman who is selling his business to his customers. They are your employer, they pay you. You show up when they tell you to, you wear what they tell you to, and you do what they say or you don't get paid. After a lot of being told what to do you'll get to a point where you give the orders rather than take them, but if you can't bring yourself to follow the rules and give an honest days work for an honest days pay for another person I don't see why you think self employment is a good option. You made a spreadsheet? Cool, anyone with an IQ greater than his waist size would calculate whether or not a job was financially worth it to go to prior to accepting the position.

The government didn't ruin your life. You said yourself that you were just getting by via poker. That's not good enough to get ahead of the competition which gets tougher by the day. If you're getting by but not making good money you can't take too many days off and you become a slave to the grind, something that you act like you don't want to be. If you haven't made enough money to walk away from the working world through poker by now, you shouldn't have expected to do that because very, very, very, very few of even the best poker players will make enough to be set for life. After poker, they're going to have to learn to become a trader, go back to school for law or investment banking, get into real estate, get into venture capital or startups or buying franchises. Guess what? All of those are going require a lot of showing up when someone tells you to, dressing how they tell you to, and doing what they tell you to. Poker went away? Well, good poker players adapt to changing conditions and learn to find profitable opportunities and exploit them. If you can't adapt to life outside of poker then you weren't going to make it in poker to begin with, so be thankful that you saved yourself a lot of anguish and a gap in your resume.

You sound really lazy, conceited, and in need of some perspective.
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05-29-2012 , 03:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroBob
Ummm, Bankroll management. If a 4.5BI hurt/bothered you that much then just be done with it forever. Seriously. Get on with your life.
it takes a $500 BR online to make $10/hr.

it takes a BR of $2000-$5000 in B&M to make $10/hr.

Micro players transitioning to live have to handle huge swings, and have to have a massive bankroll relative to what they were used to, to achieve the same hourly expectation they enjoyed previously.
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