This is the thread to discuss the Player representatives report and subsequent game and rake changes.


PokerStars Player Representatives Report





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Rake in PLO will be same as NLHE ?

Linked thread is not linked to the linked thread.

I like the lower caps. But I wish they had a lower cap on split pots for split pot games.

What is the rake structure at 5/10NL? It is not shown in the graphic.

They did increase the cap for 3-handed and 5-handed.

Looks likes a pretty good result on first read.

Why $5nl and $6nl though, surely $4nl should replace $5nl.

I was wondering too, changes seem good for plo2 but meh for plo5-plo25

+1, they might as well change 25nl into 30nl with the new 16nl introduced

Changes seem extremely promising. Good job guys. Although it says that that the rake has been increased at 25/50 and above? It seems that the rake caps are the same (bar from the 3 player cap) and the rake has reduced to 4.5%?

First of all wanted to thank all the reps for their hard work. Seems like a pretty intense group of sessions, a lot of time involved, little gain on your parts, and you're clearly looking out for the best interests of the poker community. Thanks a lot.


I was really curious how you all came about this figure:


This seems incredibly low to me as many regs have recorded 20%+ drops in VPP (your group says 14%) rate. There are also 3 major factors which lead me to believe this number is in fact much higher:

1. There will be much fewer cash game regs reaching SNE but will still put in a lot of volume so eventually they will be producing a ton of rake but not getting as much rakeback.

2. A lot of players with much lower FPP multipliers are now getting more VPPs but they don't get nearly as many FPPs.

3. A lot of the players now getting distrubted these FPPs will go broke before spending them, or spend them on items which are massively +EV for Pokerstars.


I also really don't know what this 1.5% means. Does it mean only 1.5% fewer VPPs are handed out? How can stars possibly already know that this will result in a loss of overall profit from cash games of 1.5%? It's been one month... and all SNEs that were able to get SNE are still SNE so far.

It seems like this number is impossible to know if we are talking about overall profit.

I have just posted my FL report in the thread.

We had hoped our report would should an breakdown by game and stake type of the rake reduction. However, there were some last-minute issues with the data and we are waiting on these results. It may be early next week when these are posted.

Now the report's out can someone answer the questions above? Also for PLO? On the face of it, it sounds like the rake's still extortionately high to make it an unattractive proposition playing on Stars.

While i appreciate all the work, for future meetings there shouldn't be an automatic right for current reps to go and other people should be given a chance IMO(if there are people who wish to step up via vote).

I believe individual player reports will go in to more specifics here but i will answer this question broadly as I see it being a common one.

Firstly, we spent a LOT of time on this 1.5% figure. Perhaps 2+ days in total was a
focus on us feeling confident on this figures accuracy. I agree it's very unintuitive. We cannot post specifics as it is based on confidential business information. However, I can say that - within reasonable boundaries (this was not a full independent audit, we have to assume that raw data we are provided is real) all players on the panel were confident of this figure and confident that the rake reductions give more back to players than the rewards reductions take away.

All three of your points were interrogated by the players. We simulated players moving between VIP levels as a result, we looked at the differing VPP value to players, we looked at expiry/redemption rates of of FPPs.

The 1.5% is the increase in pokerstars cash game revenue due to fewer rewards being paid out due to the switch to WC. It is not the reduction in rewards paid out. The reason we are talking in teh 1.5% figure is that it makes it comprable to the reduction in rake due to the structural changes.

There is no assumption future meetings would involve any of the player reps who went to the meeting last week.

Thank you guys! Great changes for the micro stakes players.

I'm moving back to PS asap!

...the new levels are super-great idea too!

Yay team!

Yes, we had hoped to have this in today's report, but last minute issues with the data means there's a delay here.

I'm satisfied with the rake decrease; you did a great job.
Why NL6 and NL16? Could it separate the player pool further?

To those that went to the IoM - thank you for taking a week out of your lives to try and thrash this out. It is unfortunate that your reward will probably be stupid questions and criticism on here, but haters gonna hate, I guess.

It looks like the changes made are fairly positive overall, and in any case are superior to the initial proposal by Stars. Good work.

Disliked this ● PokerStars will not reduce the 6x VPP multiplier at full ring games. They recognise the inequality, but full ring games are a small portion of real money games. This should be considered a bonus for full ring and not a punishment for other games. "

Nobody wanted it decreased, we wanted the rest increased.????

Also, there was no mention of the cap increase of 3-4 players will affect the overall rake for 6max players. 3-4 handed games are frequent for 6max players? Also, you are now somewhat punished for helping to get a full 6max table going.

Only had a brief look but it seems, based on the tables, that players will pay LESS rake at nl50-nl600 playing 4 and 6 handed. But more rake playing 5 handed.

Correct me if im wrong on this point.

I understand the NL16 as going from 10-25's a pretty big jump (NL18 would probably be better as it's more mid-point but that gives weird SB sizing issues, so NL20 would be the next feasible option.) Not sure why it goes 2,5,6 though. 2,4,6 would have made more sense. The idea's so people don't get stuck grinding NL10 trying to make a huge jump to NL25 and finding it tough to move up.

I want to have a split pot game representative at the next meeting.

At first, let me say thnak you very much for all the work you did guys. Respect!


The outcome of the negotation looks very promising. Okay, not every one will be happy about decreasing the rake, but I think you and Stars made the majority of the players happy.

One last question. At FL there is a stake 4c/8c. I read of this also somewhere on Starshomepage but couldnt find any table in the software?

The changes are ok. One thing I don't like is that all nl/pl games are raked the same. CAP games and Omaha shouldn't have the same rake structure. Personally I don't mind it cause I play 100bb nl holdem just it isn't that great for the other games.
One think I am worried is that pokerstars will cut their advertising budget to keep their profits on the same level. Hopefully it won't happen.