Some sites come to mind:

1. ParadisePoker had their own software before moving to the Boss network last year. As far as I know they wrote the software off and are not using it anymore.

2. The old JetSetPoker that went offline was purchased by someone and he opened a free site (?) or something similar. I remember reading a thread about it somewhere. Not sure if he owns the software but google should be your friend.

3. Cryptologic is about to take their software offline and move to BossMedia if I interpreted the press releases correctly.

4. Mansion had their own software that they stopped using before hopping on the train to iPoker with a layover at Ongame.

All this talk about pokerspot and Dutch, and nobody posts the code? Well, here it is.

http://code.google.com/p/pokerspot/

It is open source, but it uses a BSD license, which is much more like a public domain-type deal than the GNU license.

I have no idea what shape the code is in, or whether it is completely out-dated or anything at all...

The age of Dutch's old software, having been not only one of the first online poker networks, but also one of the first to have gone under, makes it probably primarily most interesting as an academic study, rather than as a useful thing. There's a big thread way back in ancient history regarding it, on the Software forum (try searching for PokerSpot) .. if one could actually get it up and running, to see how it all worked, it would be interesting academically, to see what pieces work and don't ..

The 2+2 thread was already posted above:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/45...pensource-710/

I contacted Everleaf (now Red Planet) and got a good initial reception, but then things started to drag out. First his CTO couldn't be bothered over the Christmas and New Years holidays. Then more and more delays, excuses, and apologies. Finally, his CTO read the project description, made a few notes, and the owner said it would take too much development and has since refused to reply to any subsequent emails. Unbelievable. Anyway...

I looked over suggestions since then. The poker sites with old poker software had already been contacted and they would not sell or lease it. I have made a number of attempts to contact the owners of JetSetPoker to no avail. Even had someone here give me a personal introduction to him to no avail.

I had a programmer look over the open source poker software. He said it would take more work to make it do what I need done than just building it from scratch.

Any other suggestions?

The programmer might be correct. The remaining option is to contract (not hire) a programmer to write the server and client for you. Detailed specs defined in writing, in advance.

You will probably need to limit the initial scope to one poker varient. It will help if the programmer also has a good knowledge of online poker. You could consider creating a partnership if you do not have enough cash to pay him outright.

If you have money, there are also sites such as RentACoder and others where you can post your proposal and get bids from exotic places all around the world.

Start making a list of the features you want, and try to create a graphic of what you want the client software to look like.

VP$IP,

Thanks for the suggestions. I got two private messages from possible poker software providers and am doing to discuss this with them first. If that goes nowhere and no one else has a software source suggestion, I was going to basically do what you suggested. I have written up a project listing that I have been showing around to possible sources for what I'm seeking. That's what the Everleaf/Red Planet guy showed his CTO.

What we are discussing here is a system and not a standalone application. You are going to need system testing and integration. You are going to need to fix the software when problems come up. You are probably going to want to periodically enhance it.

That's not going to be possible if you issue a fixed-price coding contract to someone who lives on Mars and has no long-term relationship with your business.

If I were to go that route, I would be seeking a long-term relationship with the programmer and regularly toss work his way.

Detailed specs should also specify programming language, fully commented code
(with defined details or examples), and an update contract.

If you have to program from scratch, I would go farther than this and seek a partner--consider swapping an equity share of the business in return for delivering running software. You would still have to carefully spec out the software, of course.

You need somebody with pretty high-level architect/designer/coder skills. A kid with a BS and 2 yrs coding experience probably won't cut it (a few would, but those are the exceptions). You could probably get proposals and resumes from several prospective partners. I will also point out that doing the server and the client really require 2 different skill sets--it should be possible to find guys with experience on both ends, however.

Planet Poker?

Here is yet another open source poker site:

http://code.google.com/p/cspoker/

P.S. Whatever software you choose, make it so that bots can also plug and play via some nice API.

Thanks. I'll check it out.

What's API?

I think this open source poker client/server already comes with some sort of API. But otherwise I meant just API to plug bots to play - Java/or C interface. How should the interface exactly look like doesn't matter so much, something close to PokerAcademy APIs would be OK.

API = applications programming interface = the rules or language that the client and server use to communicate. I think you would be pretty silly to make your ad-supported freeroll site bot friendly. At least until bots start reading ads (or at least clicking on them) and buying things. Maybe indiana's bot is up enough to start buying some luxury goods.

Your project is destined to fail if you take this route.

You are going to implement a large system that serves thousands of concurrent users with actual money at stake. And you're going to do this without a fulltime staff of IT people to maintain the system?

I'll be the first one laughing when you come across a bug in the system which causes you to lose money as it's exploited by the users, and when you call the programmer to "toss work" to, he/she tells you that he's got another website that he needs to finish writing for someone or they have some personal stuff to attend to. "Can it wait?"

Do some reading on the web and you'll quickly find that most corporations who tried the cheap outsourcing route have discovered that it usually doesn't work. Whether for quality issues or the implied cost savings.

You really need to read a thread before posting to it. Or at the very least read the first post that started the thread. That you don't and just jump to the end of a thread and spout off as if you know what the thread is about only makes you look like an idiot.

Actually, a small group of very experienced American programmers are advising me on this project and all of them recommend outsourcing. They don't have the expertise to do this specific work themselves but have decades of programming and IT project management experience. They suggest first seeing if I can get a poker site software package from someone and, saying it is in good shape, hire programmers to build it into what I want it to be. If that's not possible, get it built from scratch.

Theres dynamic gaming systems which used to have a flash based poker software (Jungle Poker / Wingows and others). They have since folded.

Found this about Dynamic Gaming Systems

The defunct Wingows.com is achived at
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://wingows.com
The download link still works.

VP$IP,

Interesting and revealing quote now that it has folded. Being a marketer by profession, I take a different approach. I think of a good niche market and find out if anyone is focusing on serving just it. If not, I try to go after it. Optimize my product or service to just it. Not try to be all things to all people. Never trying to satisfy everyone. You cannot do either of those things. Now if someone likes my niche, they will love me customizing my business to just its needs and desires. If they don't like the niche, they'll likely hate it for not being what they would like it to be.

Outsourcing means a lot of different things. At one end of the spectrum Ladbrokes outsourced their online poker system to Microgaming. A major player in the gaming-software industry with a large permanent engineering organization.

Near the other end of the spectrum is this:

This is the quote that Margaud was responding to. Maybe he could be more tactful but he is absolutely correct. You cannot outsource a system of this size and complexity to a "programmer" or two. There is no possible way it will work. In-house or outsourced, there needs to be a substantial engineering organization developing and maintaining this system. Most of the people working in that organization will not be "programmers" because most of the work is not "programming".

I don't normally like to argue credentials but they seem to impress you so I will make an exception. I have over 20 years experience in the systems engineering, software development, integration, and lifecycle support of large telecommunications systems. I do know what I am talking about. Whether you choose to listen is strictly up to you.

Stellarwinds is absolutely correct that a poker system can't be launched with just one or two programmers.

However, one or two programmers can be enough to build a working prototype.

I've been a part of several startups, where a working barebones prototype, with an air tight plan, and a seemless pitch by the founders was enough to get additional funding to the next phase.

Furthermore, at this point in the OP's business venture, worrying about the poker PLAYING software might be a big premature.

If I were a potential investor, partner, or employee, the selling point of this venture wouldn't be the software but the business plan and user experience that makes this concept unique and profitable.

good luck on your Project i will definatly join it if it ever stars

I think there is a bit of confusion over what is being talked about. Zaybalay is getting what I'm meaning.

At this point, I do not feel and have I been advised by programmers and IT project managers I know to not hire an army to write the computer program for the poker site. I'm looking for one or at most a few to do so. And that is after hopefully finding a poker program that someone has already developed and which can be used as a sort of foundation for my poker site. My programmer then making the necessary changes and additions to make it into what I want my poker site to be. And I am going to look for a computer consulting firm to do that work but with one or only a few at that firm doing the actual work. I never intended to hire a freelancer operating alone. I would contract the firm to maintain the servers (or at least remote oversee them if they're hosted at a server farm) and handle any technical problems as they arise.

The above is what the programmers and IT project managers I know are advising me to do and, if possible, is what I will be doing.

But right now I am still trying to find the previously made poker program. Currently, I am corresponding with an established poker site about using their old software (they having moved to a network and are currently using theirs) and hopefully they and I can come to some sort of agreement. If that is possible, I can move to the next stage and seek out the computer consulting firm to do the additional development that I need for my poker site. When I am at that stage, I will be posting the project on job sites (e.g., guru.com) and that will be yet another adventure to select the one and get them to work on it. But that is down the road. I need the base program and that's where I'm presently at.

Now if anyone has any other suggestions as to who to contact for such a base poker program, I'd appreciate being pointed in their direction.