That does not seem like any kind of proof that CiL or Betraiser cannot be trusted. I am not familiar with Betjacks, however Sportsbetting.com is a Jazette owned room. Jazette also owns Players Only and Sportsbook.com and that review site gives them even worse ratings. I have accounts at PO and Sportsbook and I have never had an issue with cashouts and they have never taken more than a week. I cannot agree they have issues. I think its overstepping to tell people this site will rip them off.

nah they used to have 10 € winner takes all stt freerolls. you could only play them until you won one, but it was a nice way to get started if you didnt wanna deposit. put it all on a nl10 table and got lucky. i dont think they have those freerolls anymore.

also i never had any trouble with them except some minor (but somewhat funny) software glitches. dont play much there anymore, but thats only because there are so few games running, and especially no plo. still have money on the site, and im not worried about them taking it. had much worse experiences with much more reputable sites.

wat?

I was asking everyone, not just that poster, if it was possible to get money onto the site without depositing. It was a serious question, and it had nothing to do with me implying that his self-described "champion" label is tantamount to being the tallest in a crowd of midgets.

Hey after they were down other day I was got worried that they could be pulling the plug and had good bit of money there now.

I wrote to rakeback nation.. and the owner had this to say about betraiser.

I wrote to nation cuz was telling them if they had pulled the plug i wanted them to reimburse me for referring me there.

but anyways things seem on the up and up now... people have said they have had no problems with cashouts etc

but anyways this is what the owner/ manger of rakebacknation.com had to say

Hi Mike,


Brian sent your message on to me. I'm more involved with RBN's site selection so thought I'd chime in. It's always worthwhile for you as a player to be concerned about where you're playing and the security of your funds. I certainly can't make the claim that any of the sites that we work with are perfectly secure. Smaller sites especially are more likely to have problems. It's proper to be aware of the risk of site failure when you play online, especially at smaller sites.


Some info specifically about Betraiser...
-They're licensed in Curacao. Curacao doesn't have very strict licensing requirements, but they do offer some protection to you as a player. It's a popular place to get licensed, especially for sportsbooks, because their fees are low.
-I've personally known one of the key partners at Betraiser for about 4 years. Shes very available and I trust her.
-There have been very few payout related problems at Betraiser. Any small issues that have arisen have been quickly resolved.
-Betraiser shows the signs of a room in it for the long run. They've been receptive to feedback and are fixing bugs as we bring them to their attention.


Now, all this doesn't really guarantee anything. I understand that, and you should too. They've had their fair share of issues. Their MTTs have had problems handing heavier traffic. As you found, they have had connection problems. These problems demonstrate their lack of maturity as a site.


I hope the above helps alittle.


If you're requesting a payout, just let me know the amount (and if it's your full balance) before you request it and I'll make sure the 10% fee is either not applied (full cashout) or refunded.


Rob

my bad, totally thought you were being sarcastic...
but...
how would you ever be able to get money onto any site without depositing... you mean freerolls and p2p transfers?

yeh dude u have to play dinky freerolls to get money in without depositing.

would take forever tro get any kind of real money on there.

just put money on thru click 2 pay.. set up an account thru full tilt.. then deposit on betraiser. Thats what i did.

mike

It's cool...Yeah I just wanted to know if it was possible b/c I'm gonna join at some point in the future, but want to avoid depositing if possible.

Thanks for the info., I may end up doing this in 2010.

Comical genius. I'm literally on the floor crying, no joke.

SO its 10% fee on entire cash out or winnings? If its just winnings thats an amazing deal. But Say I deposit 500$ break even then withdrawl would they pay me 450$?

I did some googling and there seems to be no deposit bonuses or other promotions through an affiliate for this site. Anyone know if there is anything like this available

It allows americans

it's on the winnings only so if you break even you can cash out the entire amount of $500
and yes, it is an amazing deal, but the traffic sucks so get playing on it
I don't care if it's filled with regs, if there's games running that's better than no games running

it doesn't take rake so it can't offer these promotions because it already gives back 100% to break-even players and if it offered any kind of bonus it would lose money on their play (when FTP or stars offer a bonus it's just higher rakeback)
you can sign up as a prop and play for free (10% fee is waived) though

any updates to their archaic systems tho?

doesn't this make sense if they aren't making any money off of you?

Hey guys..

I have sent in my driver's license and I am by far the biggest player there..

They are jerking me around on my cashout bigtime!!

I sent in my driver's license like 6 days ago .. and they said they are sending it to the correct department.. Well 6 days later.. no letter saying they have reviewed my driver's license and I can cashout. Also I signed up as a prop.. so I'm not suppossed to pay the 10% fee. I have the most money on the site by far.. over 6000 usa dollars.

How long does it take to review a driver's license? about 20 seconds.. yet 6 days later.. no reponse that my driver's license has been reviewed and that i can cashout and also no instructions on how to cashout without paying a ten percent fee.

I advise people to be cautious about this site until they get better at treating people like me, their biggest prop and player, with more respect.

Sorry for the cross-post, but I didn't want to miss any of pokermonster's complaint posts. See: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...3&postcount=14

Hi,

I play almost exclusively SS HUPLO. I love the idea of a no rake site but am a little worried about traffic.

Pokescout.com shows "0" traffic...

What's some players' experience with the site in terms of traffic in HU games, 6max, NLHE, PLO etc...?

Or is absolutely no one playing on there?

people play there, but you have to start a table and wait for them to join

But they play what? They play HUPLO cash, everything?

I signed up for betraiser November/December 2009 but didn't get an activation e-mail. I e-mailed support with no reply. Sent a second e-mail two weeks later. No reply. Folded.

So far I have only seen Holdem games running. I have tried to start a few Razz tables, but no one sat. I have not tried PLO yet, but when starting a Holdem table, a couple people usually sit quickly. If you like having funds at a couple sites, its probably one to add, but be sure you have other sites with more action. I would start some PLO tables and see what kind of action you end up getting.

Thanks, I think I'll just do that and see what happens.

I've played at Betraiser almost every day for over a year now. Regulars there will know me as my SN is the same as here - SteveCut.

Here's my take on them:

Profitability (mine): As Delboy might say, I've got a nice little earner at Betraiser. No rake, and added-value tournaments all day mean big, big positive ev. I want to continue to profit, which is one of the main reasons I am writing this. For instance, they offer €1,000 added tournaments but do not have enough takers to meet the minimum player requirement! Come on guys, I want my share of that money! Pull your weight!

Software: Functional with a few minor glitches but nothing too annoying. Much improved reliability over the past year. I still have occasional disconnection problems if my connection is very weak (I have only a pathetic GPRS wireless connection where I live).

Game availability: Very limited choice for cash players due to very low traffic. I play MTTs. Each one has money added or a guaranteed payout which is always well under-subscribed. So, excellent value.

Payment: Surprisingly for such a minor player it's the best out of all the rooms I play - and I play on every major network. The money is usually in my Moneybookers account within a matter of minutes or hours. Longest I've waited has been about 36 hours.

Rake: Well it's already been said here. Superb value for players!

Opponents: It looks like Westerners are scared of playing here. They no doubt feel safer with the big networks even if they do have to pay through their noses to do so. Most players are Eastern European. Many are very poor players. The standard of play is lower than on the major networks.

Security: Don't know anything more about them other than what's already been stated here. I've not encountered any problems, nor have I heard of any problems with them. (Apart from Pokermonster's LOL sudden panic at Xmas ). All I can say is that I've earned and withdrawn thousands of Euros from them over the past year. I usually don't keep more than €300 in my Betraiser account, so if they were to go tits-up I certainly won't be a loser. To be frank, I'd be crying more about my lost earnings potential than the money in the account.

Support: Not so great. Have to use in-house mail system on their web site. I've always received a response, although it's usually something like "Your comments have been passed to the department concerned for action". Mostly I use it for reporting minor bugs, possible enhancements etc. Didn't get much help with some of the annoying glitches reported here (telephone authentication problems, silly error messages like "incorrect session" etc.) Mostly I sorted those out for myself and shared information with other players.

Overall: I don't understand why players are so reluctant to try playing here. Betraiser's business model is unique and very advantageous for the player. Don't complain about the lack of traffic - sign-up and be that blooming traffic! Just sign-up for the value-added MTTs if you like! You can't lose!

Not convinced? OK, let me try a different tack:

In the place where I used to live in the UK there was a terrible local bus service. It was run by a large nationalized company which had a monopoly. Buses only ran every hour and were expensive and sometimes didn't turn up - or worse, ran early! When the public transportation services were de-monopolized, a new, local, small-budget firm started running buses in competition with this, now commercial, monolith. The new firm's service was cheaper, friendlier, and ran on time at customer-friendly, equidistant intervals from the national firm's buses. After a few weeks, business had picked up for both companies because of the improved service and reliability - even the national firm had had to improve their service in order to compete. Many people started to travel by bus again who would not have dreamed of doing so with the previous expensive and haphazard service, myself included.

The original company, however, were not too happy to have an efficient and fare-cutting competitor. They decided to flex their muscles and drive their underfunded competitor out of the market. They rescheduled all their bus services to run five minutes ahead of the new company's buses. F*** the competition and, in effect, f*** the customer too. No doubt you can guess passengers' reaction to this? Yes, like sheep, they meekly boarded the first bus to come along. When I tried arguing with them, they said, "well maybe the other bus won't turn up? Safer to get on this one." Safer, yes - but can you guess what kind of bus service they enjoy now? That's right, exactly the same monopolistic, inefficient, expensive, infrequent, s*** service that they had in the beginning.

So, what ya gonna do guys? Keep herding onto the first FT/PS/iP bus? OK, the service is pretty good, but the fares are exorbitant and they sure ain't gonna reduce them unless they have to. Or why not try to support the little guy that's offering us great value? Their buses aren't the most comfortable in the world, but if we support them they can get better. But to do that you need to overcome apathy, stop following the herd, stop whinging about thus far unfounded fears and actually get off your arses and support them.

"Ah!" you say, "but maybe they won't pay me or will go bust? No, it's safer to play on Full Tilt."
Safer, yes - but can you guess what kind of rake you'll be paying in five years time? Full Tilt business model or Betraiser business model?

I'm not holding my breath! I'll get the car out of the garage.

maybe YOURE the site champion?!

seriously tho...i dl'd the software long ago, with the intention of signing up. i, like you, would have added this as my fourth site, and held a very small roll on it. would have been nice to add one non-rake table to my play. first, i couldnt preview the tables prior to signing up, which is a horrid software problem. i decided to sign up anyway, and tried to create an account. i found that the only way to sign up was to link a mobile phone and text in a code or somthing (i dont have texting), so i decided not to actually press enter after inputting all my info, and to instead question support on a couple issues. i never received a reply to my queries. i have stated this all before. its almost like this site puts up artificial barriers to new getting new players. looking at it from their perspective, they must be run by incompetent people, since if i owned this site the system to recruit and sign up new paying customers would be of PARAMOUNT concern. i also hear there is only one depos and w/d option, and i dont have access to it.

Good post steve.

The new pokermonster? Please? Don't say that - even in jest.

Yes, I did read about your problems and I have had similar problems in the past to be honest. When they introduced the mobile phone verification, I was locked out for about a week and had to give my daughter's UK mobile phone number in the end, because the software refused to accept my mainland European number for some reason. As you say, recruiting and signing-up new customers must be of paramount concern to them, yet they do seem to put these avoidable barriers in the way of playing - even to the extent of inadvertently locking-out regulars like myself. They are definitely not your run of the mill business!

They seem to have lots of payment methods, but if you're in the US then I guess it's not so simple.