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Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account.

02-12-2011 , 07:50 AM
Looks like it's going the right way, I hope this gets fixed quickly . I know OP and vouch for him for what it's worth : he could be accused of skilled bumhunting for sure, but chipdumping is ridiculous.
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-12-2011 , 07:55 AM
Much as it may seem like he comes from heaven, it is actually Mike Haven.
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-12-2011 , 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkelly69
Much as it may seem like he comes from heaven, it is actually Mike Haven.
Thanks for ruining my image.
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-12-2011 , 08:48 AM
None of those hands look remotely suspicious to me. The "worst" is the Q10 hand but I've seen fish do much more ******ed things than that before.
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-12-2011 , 09:42 AM
session one looks kind of sketchy the bet min raise fold and the call off with 105 could be seen as chipdumping if looked at by themselves i would need to review the entire session to justify it as the guy was terrible


gonna view session 2 now
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-12-2011 , 10:39 AM
gl
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-12-2011 , 04:52 PM
Contact update:
Exchanged numerous pms with Mike Haven during the afternoon. Provided him (and betfair) the sn for 2 other ongame account on other skins that I used before betfair and multiples sn on non ongame site tracked on ptr, so they can see that my playing history match my story (and that my tracked winnings on PTR > 100x the amount I allegedly received via chipdumping).

Last edited by unhappyguy; 02-12-2011 at 05:02 PM.
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-12-2011 , 06:21 PM
Don't you know that taking money from fish that fast hurts Betfair's bottom line? Have a heart, next time soft play and drag it on as long as possible. Plus, you'll get more rakeback, which is awesome!
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-12-2011 , 10:00 PM
wow im playin on betfair,i dnt like this one bit,heard other stories also...was just wanderin if you could threaten them legally,wat wud happen
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-12-2011 , 11:19 PM
best word i learned is "rogue". thanks for the link to casinomeister.
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-13-2011 , 05:49 AM
Contact status:
-RAKETHERAKE (my affiliate): contacted through their website and a direct email on 12 feb 2011 - waiting for a reply
-Mike Haven (2+2 supermod and 2+2 betfair liaison agent): last pm exchanged 12 feb 2011 - waiting for an update
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-13-2011 , 05:28 PM
I have spent few hours researching what may have triggered this false positive on ongame profiling/fraud detection software, and I think I got a much better picture of what happened.

General infos
For the purpose of the demonstration I finally decided to release my betfair SN and the SN of my opponents (1)

My betfair SN is tylol
Vilain who allegedly chip dumped money to me at $3/6 is sebbec
Vilain who allegedly chip dumped money to me at $5/10 is Eshieksiksi

Both full session can be reviewed directly on ongame site through those link:
$3/6 against sebbec http://www.pokernetwork.co.uk/games/...earchType=next
$5/10 against Eshieksiksi http://www.pokernetwork.co.uk/games/...earchType=next

You can find some inaccurate informations (hands are missing) on both players and myself on PTR (as example the amount I won against those opponent is not correct)

Both session took place the 7th of feb 2011 and I got my account locked the next day.



Analysis of sebbec behaviour and history:
His account was fresh from the day, he didnt have any previous play history in cash game on PTR, sharkscope or official poker rankings.
2011-02-07 08:59 he started the day by seating with $379.80 at my HU $3/6 table and losing it in 106 hands against me
2011-02-07 09:40 he sat with 1000$ at a 6max $5/10 table where 1 guy was seated with 350$, 2 regs join the table and sebbec drop 1000$ in 11 hands, almost all of his money is lost to Goosey82 (whose seems legit according to his ptr records, and who by the way didnt get his account locked as he last played 2 days ago) this second session can be seen there ( http://www.pokernetwork.co.uk/games/...hType=previous

=> What looks like a new account drop $379.80 to me in 106 hands of hu (session finish at 09:33 gmt) and then 7 min later (looks like the time it would take to cashin) drop 1000$ in 11 hands (2 to 4 handed) mostly to 1 reg that seems legit and didnt get his account locked (despite receiving 2.5x more money in 10x less hands).



Analysis of Eshieksiksi behaviour and history:
Account is at least 6month old (according to ptr)
PTR:
He looks like a recreational player who play NL25 to NL200 once in a while (no history of playing above $1/2 before our session)

Sharkscope:
Eshieksiksi Sharkscope Buy-ins diagram http://i.imgur.com/cfJHV.png
Eshieksiksi Sharkscope Graph http://i.imgur.com/snE8S.png
Eshieksiksi Sharkscope Recent history http://i.imgur.com/Blkbv.jpg

He usually played low stakes SNG (played 322 5$, 54 $10, 18 20$ staying almost breakeven).

2011-02-05 He decided to move up in stakes and play 3x $50 sngs (1win for $54, 2lost for $-108)
2011-02-07 He decided to move up again in stakes and proceed to play 2* $215 SNG and lost both, last one is lost at 11:34 gmt, its a sick downswing for him according to his graph (haha).
2011-02-07 at 11:36 GMT (2 minutes after losing his last SNG) Eshieksiksi seat for the first time ever at $5/10 HU CG with what is left of his roll and play against me...

=> Recreational player take shot in SNG way above his usual stakes, lose and tilt and then come to my hu table (at stakes he never played before) to finish his bankroll.


Analysis of my own behaviour and history:
According to my tracker it was the first day ever i was playing 3/6 and 5/10 on betfair !
All the $5/10 hands I ever played on betfair were played against Eshieksiksi
All but the 4 fhand of $3/6 were played against sebbec

=> Its very likely that this looked "unusual" and helped to trigger some flags on the heuristic engine of ongame fraud detection software.

For my defense, I have an extensive history of play at $3/6 HU and $5/10 HU on many other sites, including 1750 hands of $3/6 and 138 hands of $5/10 played on another ongame skin last year. I provided those SN to betfair through Mike Haven.


The big picture (my educated guess on what may have happened).

Given his record they are decent chance that sebbec had a dodgy account (stolen credit card or did some chargeback) and that Eshieksiksi was so tilted/destroyed after losing his bankroll that he tried something desesperate ("hey why dont i contact the site to tell them that I got hacked ? so i can recover my funds")

-One or both player behaviour generated some kind of incident/report on ongame fraud detection system.
-As I was a "receiving end" of some funds marked suspicious it triggered some flags on me.
-The fact that I had not much online HU CG history on betfair and that it was the first time I was playing 3/6 and 5/10 there triggered some more flags (which would explain why Goosey82 who received more fund in less hands is still able to play).
-The first hands that betfair staff saw in the report from the ongame fraud detection engine were the last hands of my HU sessions (http://weaktight.com/3223603 and http://weaktight.com/3223670 which show tilted ******s finishing their last few big blind by 3bet calling with weaks hands).
-A quick and unprofessional audit by people not familiar with HU play (its really common to have session against fishing ending like that) concluded that those hands were "sick proof" and that I was probably guilty of something (instead of wondering why I would pay 150$ of rake and play 200 hands to receive 750$ of chip dumped funds from people I obviously have no link with).


(1) I expect betfair to provide me a new SN when this story is resolved.

Last edited by unhappyguy; 02-13-2011 at 05:46 PM.
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-13-2011 , 07:12 PM
This theory definitely makes sense to me.
Do you have any feedback since you wrote to Mike et al. ?
Frankly, your analysis is so crystal clear that it seems you did what Betfair's fraud dpt should have done, but was too lazy to do.
Keep us informed plz.
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-13-2011 , 07:25 PM
Cheers for the support (and to all those who previously posted).

I hope to have news on monday...
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-13-2011 , 07:43 PM
Aren't they based in London?
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/i...aims/index.htm
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-13-2011 , 08:41 PM
why are you comfortable outing the other players names, while not your own?
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-13-2011 , 09:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRaiderr
why are you comfortable outing the other players names, while not your own?
If you are a ptr user, now you can find his SN with the 2 names he just provided
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-13-2011 , 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRaiderr
why are you comfortable outing the other players names, while not your own?
Really?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlogic
If you are a ptr user, now you can find his SN with the 2 names he just provided
Can you? You could also try looking up about four posts above
Quote:
Originally Posted by unhappyguy

For the purpose of the demonstration I finally decided to release my betfair SN and the SN of my opponents (1)

My betfair SN is tylol
Vilain who allegedly chip dumped money to me at $3/6 is sebbec
Vilain who allegedly chip dumped money to me at $5/10 is Eshieksiksi
I hope you guys read hands better than you read these threads.
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-13-2011 , 10:48 PM
Rofl you pawn me hehe didn't notice your SN in this wall of text ;P

Anyway i hope for you a happy ending
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-14-2011 , 12:58 AM
yeah I didn't see it, I apologise for my post!

I guess i can't read when im playing poker and reading lol
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-14-2011 , 03:28 AM
I was a smart-ass in my prev post.. it *was* a pretty big wall of text.

Long weekend....
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-14-2011 , 04:14 PM
Contact update
-Raketherake finally answered and told me that they would contact the site and "shed some light on this for me".

Happy ending
I got a call from L. at betfair fraud departement:
-both my betfair poker account and my betfair account have been un-suspended.
-apologies have been offered.
-i can log into both account (poker/betting) and all my money is still there.
-i later received an email confirming the 3 previous points.

Side note
-No commercial gesture to make up for my lost time (and induced tilt) has been offered yet...

Thanks
-Thx 2p2 for offering me some leverage.
-Thx to the people who took the time to vouch/support me.
-Thx Mike Haven.
-Thx luck for being able to analyse and document the situation so i can prove few "fraud specialist" wrong and avoid being teared to shred by ******ed conspiracy theorist.
-Thx PTR for providing informations that helped me to prove that I was clean.

Thread cliffs:
-New account claims that "Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account", turn out his claims were legit.

Last edited by unhappyguy; 02-14-2011 at 04:31 PM.
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-14-2011 , 04:19 PM
While everything is now fine and dandy for OP, what are Betfair/Ongame going to do so that this kind of thing doesn't happen again?
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-14-2011 , 05:50 PM
well played op, only half way there now though. i think the least betfair/ongame should do is give you a new screen name.

Its about time there was some sort of independent arbitration service online for this sort of thing, i bet there are quite a few accounts that have had been closed unfairly.
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote
02-14-2011 , 09:00 PM
As I suspected upon reading this thread the first time, this is more typicall ongame incompetence they anything else.

People, I being one of them, are pushing them to do something about colluders, softplay, etc. this is what they end up doing.
Bunch of clueless monkeys.
Betfair and ongame wrongfully accused me of chipdumping, took my money and closed my account. Quote

      
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